Re: draft-housley-iesg-rfc3932bis and the optional/mandatory nature of IESG notes

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Adam Roach wrote:


While the presence of alternate streams of publication doesn't bother me, I think they need to be automatically and prominently marked as being something other than an IETF document.

In particular, when a user accesses a document at a url of the form <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfcNNNN.txt>, there is going to be a strong presumption on their part that the document was produced by the IETF. In the cases that this presumption is incorrect, it seems tantamount to deception to tuck the distinction between IETF and non-IETF documents away in an obscure header field.

/a

Your argument seems to me to be the latest version of the 30-year old discussion about whether all RFCs are standards. They are not. And even documents in the IETF stream (which includes
individual submission, by the way) very considerably in quality and safety.

Bob Braden


Jari Arkko wrote:
I would like to get some further input from the community on this draft.

But first some background. This draft was brought to a second last call in June because several IESG members felt uncomfortable with the IESG notes being used only in exceptional circumstances. I asked Russ to prepare the -07 version. This version allowed notes to be used at the IESG's discretion and suggested that the linkage (or lack thereof) to IETF work would typically be explained in the note. This version was taken to the second last call.

While the number of comments we received was small, after the last call was over I determined that the consensus was against this change. As a result, I asked Russ to prepare the -08 version. This version goes back to the "exceptional" wording from -06, but incorporated a number of editorial corrections that had been made in interim. I also took the draft back to the IESG telechat last week. The IESG was not extremely pleased with the new version, but my understanding is that they were willing to accept the changes. However, a new issue was brought up: one of the changes that Russ and I felt was editorial highlighted the fact that the document makes the IESG notes a recommendation to the RFC Editor, not something that would automatically always be applied to the published RFC. Some IESG members were concerned about this, and preferred the latter.

And now back to the input that I wanted to hear. I would like to get a sense from the list whether you prefer (a) that any exceptional IESG note is just a recommendation to the RFC Editor or (b) something that is always applied to the published RFC. Please reply before the next IESG meeting on September 10. Some e-mails on this topic have already been sent in the Last Call thread -- I have seen those and there is no need to resend.

(For the record my own slight preference is b. But I have to say that I think the document has been ready to be shipped from version -06, and its unfortunate that we're not there yet, particularly since this document is holding up the implementation of the new headers and boilerplates system for independent submissions, IRTF submissions and IETF submissions. I will exhaust all possible means of getting this approved in the next meeting, as soon as I know what the community opinion is.)

Jari Arkko

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