okay, just to be clear - I'm not sure it should be assumed that SGs follow the same rules as for WGs - especially if SGs can be closed or invitation only like design teams can. I like openness, but I also recognize that the IETF culture tends to interpret openness broadly enough to mean that anyone can bring up any topic at any time, whether or not that topic is related to the group's purpose, whether or not that person knows what he is talking about, whether or not that topic has already been discussed and a conclusion reached, and whether or not there is any new information on that topic. And this is a big part of our problem. So I think it might be a mistake to incorporate too many assumptions about IETF WGs into SGs. _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf