Hi Keith, >> If that's indeed the case, the first order of business needs to be to >> document >> current practice. I see no chance of making forward progress on >> actual changes >> without first having a consensus as to what our current state is. > > I was just about to reply to John's message saying exactly the same > thing. My belief is that any attempt to revise 2026 is likely to > introduce a kind of second-system effect - there is so much pent-up > demand for changes to our process that everyone has his own idea about > how to do it. The only way we have any hope of getting real consensus > on a path forward is to first get a shared understanding of where we > are now. As I replied to Ned privately, our intent is to go in that direction in general. I believe in Brian Kantor's mantra: document existing practices. Furthermore, an Internet-Draft without rough consensus of the community is just two opinions. To that end, I'm putting aside my own opinion on a bunch of issues in favor of trying to find that consensus. I think we should make additional changes to this document that reflect reality. Several of John's suggestions meet that criteria. I could also imagine VERY incremental changes that are agreed to be non-controversial. My suggestion is that we first start by getting agreement on the changes in the draft that are there, including two-step process Scott & I have proposed, which I believe is a compromise between the reality of a one step process and some peoples' desires. I then propose that we address other issues that have been raised individually. If there is consensus for a change we make it. If not, we don't. I want to be that robotic in the hopes that what we end up with will be an improvement over what we have today but with the frank understanding that each of us would have probably wanted something just a bit more (but in differing ways). I also think we should also be VERY mindful of Sam Hartman's concerns about unintended changes. Eliot _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf