Re: Last Call: 'Experimental Procedure for Long Term Suspensions from Mailing Lists' to Experimental RFC

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Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> To: John Leslie <john@xxxxxxx>
> 
> John, does the text I proposed to address Margaret's concern (making
> it clear that this will not become a permanent BCP), plus the review
> requirements proposed by Harald, plus the work started by Brian to
> build community consensus on a new set of mailing list procedures help
> address your concerns?

   Making it clear that this will be a short-term experiment helps a lot.

   To _very_ briefly recap my comments at:

http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg41057.html

   I worry about the political pressures to "try" something even more
extreme than BCP83. Though I am willing to trust current IESG members
to instead find something less extreme (but greater than a 30-day
suspension), I fear that some rather strong voices will be raised
in support of "suspensions" which are _more_ permanent than BCP83 and
require less process.

   I trust current IESG members to "just say No" right now; but these
pressures _will_ continue. Thus, I want to minimize the period during
which IESG members will be subjected to them.

   Ideally, the experiment would be written to only authorize trials
of procedures _less_ extreme than BCP83. We're close to that:
] 
] The result of these guidelines is that there is a large gap between
] the levels of sanction that can be applied.  An individual can be
] suspended from a working group list easily for 30 days.  However the
] only option available to the IESG that permits  a longer suspension
] for any list besides ietf@xxxxxxxx is the ability to suspend an
] individual for an indefinite time period from one list.  This
] suspension can expand to any IETF list without community or IESG
] involvement.  This memo is an RFC 3933[RFC3933] experiment to provide
] the IESG  with the ability to create additional mechanisms to manage
] IETF mailing lists while the community decides what mailing list
] guidelines are appropriate.  IN particular this experiment allows the
] IESG to create a level of sanction between RFC 3934 and RFC 3683 for
] working group lists and create  sanctions other than RFC 3683 for
] non-working-group lists.  The goal of this experiment is to improve
] the functioning of IETF mailing lists while keeping the process open
] and fair.

... which states "in particular this experiment allows" something in
between; but it doesn't in any way limit it to that.

   IMHO, the IESG would face an easier task if this proposal _did_
limit it to that. Please note, however, that this is merely my opinion;
and I'm not the one that will have to face the political pressure for
procedures _more_ extreme than BCP83. Thus, I in no sense wish to
stand in the way of adopting it as currently drafted.

--
John Leslie <john@xxxxxxx>




























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