Lars, >> Michel Py wrote: >> Unfortunately some protocol purity zealots still have to >> realize that Linksys, Netgear, Belkin and consorts don't >> sell NAT boxes because they think NAT is good, they sell >> NAT boxes because consumers want to buy them. > Lars-Erik Jonsson wrote: > I do not think consumers in general want to buy NAT boxes, but > they are forced to do so by ISP's who do not give them a choice. Your argument does not hold water. Do a survey of customers who have the "advanced" or "pro" package (with higher speed and multiple static IP addresses) and you will find that the very vast majority of them (if not all) use NAT anyway even though they have enough public addresses. > For ISPs, these restricted connections means users > have problems running some applications, which > reduces the traffic they generate. This does not hold water either. By far, the volume of traffic is peer-to-peer (mostly questionable in terms of copyright). All major P2P apps for the most widely used protocols (bittorrent, edonkey etc) cross NAT nicely, most have UPNP support (no configuration of the NAT box) and some even have external NAT traversal mechanisms that don't even require to open a port. Breaking games an other low-volume apps serves no purpose. When ISPs want to curb traffic, they either: cap the speed, have monthly quotas, or (rarely, as it will result in loss of business) enforce their AUP. Michel. _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf