Well said Barry! Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of > Barry Leiba > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 17:31 > To: ietf@xxxxxxxx > Cc: jordi.palet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: I-D > ACTION:draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria-04.txt > > > > So, could people please review it for errors and omissions? > > My biggest concern is in sections "2.3. Freedom of Participation" > and "2.5. Attendance Limitation and Visas", in that I'm not sure > how realistic they are. Without getting overly into politics (let's > please not), I think they reflect a somewhat naïve view of some of > the political realities. Specifically... > > Meetings should not be held in countries where some > attendees could > be disallowed entry or where freedom of speech is not > guaranteed for > all participants. > > The United States certainly cannot be assumed to allow ALL attendees > entry. It's well known that we have lists of people we won't allow > in, and lest we think that's limited to the sort of nasty folk who > wouldn't be attending the IETF anyway, I'll point out that a plane > carrying Yusuf Islam -- the singer formerly known as Cat Stevens -- > was landed in Maine so that the singer could be removed and sent home > before the plane continued to New York. Individuals do get on these > lists unreasonably, or by mistake. > > Ignoring the issue of individuals, whole groups may have difficulty. > The US has a list of "restricted countries", which includes Iran and > North Korea, and a longer list of countries to which exports > of software > or technology are controlled (this list includes Russia and China, > for example). There's certainly no guarantee at any time > that attendees > from these countries won't have a difficult time getting > visas, or might > not be able to get them at all. > > As to freedom of speech: We could argue about the reality of that > for a while, but even apart from that, our government has made it > clear that it considers those constitutional rights to apply to US > citizens only, and not to foreign nationals who may be visiting. > > OK, all that said, I don't think the US is a bad country in which to > have IETF meetings. Which is, really, my point: I think the text > needs to be changed to better express the intent, which is that we > want to avoid countries that are unduly restrictive, without trying > to limit things to utopian -- and non-existent -- lands of complete > freedom. > > -- > Barry Leiba (leiba@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) > http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba > http://www.research.ibm.com/spam > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf