Brian E Carpenter <brc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > Simon, > > You are bit behind real time. We already updated this text. > > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg01837.html Thanks! This was also pointed out in private e-mail. The new text do solve my concern. I do think it is somewhat confusing, though. The second half starts with "Specifically," but the qualifications and restrictions in the second half does not follow from, or even seem related to, the qualifications in the first half. My concern with the short review period remains though. Thanks, Simon > Brian > > Simon Josefsson wrote: >> The text in section 9.5 appear to me to make it permanently impossible >> to incorporate portions of RFC in both free or proprietary products. >> I believe that is unacceptable, and that it is counter to the needs >> of >> many in the IETF community. >> In the IPR WG, I have documented that implementations of IETF >> documents distributed by Debian, FreeBSD and Sun need the rights to >> incorporate portions of RFCs in their products. >> The section reads: >> 9.5 Licenses >> The Trust (acting through the Trustees) shall have the right to >> grant licenses for the use of the Trust Assets on such terms, >> subject to Section 7.1, as the Trustees deem appropriate; provided, >> however, that the Trust shall not grant any license that would be >> deemed a transfer of ownership or abandonment of any Trust Assets >> under applicable law. Specifically, any license granted by the >> Trust for the use of the Trust Assets consisting of IPR shall >> include provisions stating that (a) the licensee agrees to grant >> ---------------------------- >> and assign to the Trust all right, title, and interest it may have >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> or claim in any derivative works of Licensee that are based on or >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> incorporate the IPR, and (b) the licensee’s use of the IPR and any >> ------------------- >> goodwill associated therewith shall inure to the benefit of the >> Trust. >> I believe the requirement to give up all rights to derivative works >> of >> the IETF IPR would be unacceptable to the Debian and FreeBSD >> community. They are not in a legal position to grant the Trust all >> rights to derivative works of the work that include portions of RFCs. >> I assume companies like Sun would find it difficult to grant the >> IETF >> Trust all rights to the Solaris operating system, which include >> excerpts from RFCs. >> If the IETF, in RFC 3978bis, gave third parties the right to use, >> modify and distribute RFCs, this would not be a problem. But RFC 3978 >> nor the current RFC 3978bis proposal does not grant those rights. The >> only mechanism to be able to grant those rights to the Debian and the >> FreeBSD community in the future will be to release those works via the >> IETF Trust. As described above, the IETF Trust cannot grant a >> sub-license without the requiring the above. I believe that >> requirement is unacceptable to most members in the IETF community. >> To fix this problem, remove the sentences that begin with >> "Specifically", thus making the section read: >> The Trust (acting through the Trustees) shall have the right to >> grant licenses for the use of the Trust Assets on such terms, >> subject to Section 7.1, as the Trustees deem appropriate; provided, >> however, that the Trust shall not grant any license that would be >> deemed a transfer of ownership or abandonment of any Trust Assets >> under applicable law. >> I believe the issues raised under "Specifically" do not follow from >> the first part of the paragraph. They seriously limits the IETF >> Trusts capabilities to grant sub-licenses, and should be removed. >> The IETF Trust should be able to grant unrestricted sub-licenses. >> Finally, less than 4 weeks of time to review a long complicated >> legal >> document is insufficient. >> My lawyer is on vacation until after Christmas. Lawyers from >> organizations such as the Free Software Foundation (FSF) and the >> Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) cannot be expected to respond >> this fast. >> This document is given less review time than even some technical >> documents. >> Given the importance of this work, I believe one year of review >> would >> be more appropriate, if you wanted to guarantee the widest possible >> review of relevant and competent people. It takes time to get useful >> output from lawyers. >> (The "less than 4 weeks" is based on the first announcement posted >> on >> November 11, and the now extended deadline of December 8th.) >> Thanks, >> Simon >> Brian Carpenter <brc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: >> >>>(posted for Lucy Lynch, IAOC Chair) >>> >>>All - >>> >>>The amended language for Section 9.5 (Licensing) of the IETF Trust was >>>posted to the IETF lists on December 1st and the IETF Trust FAQ has >>>been updated to reflect the new text (see below). We have also added >>>additional details on the handling of historical data. As we develop >>>procedures for the transfer of assets into the IETF Trust and an >>>inventory of items held by the IETF Trust we will publish them to the >>>IAOC web site (see: http://koi.uoregon.edu/~iaoc/) >>> >>>Several people asked for additional time to review our final language, >>>and with that in mind, I would like to extend this Call one last >>>time to December 8th, 2005. >>> >>>Please send comments to: ietf@xxxxxxxx or iaoc.ietf.org >>> >>>- Thanks >>> >>>Lucy E. Lynch Academic User Services >>>Computing Center University of Oregon >>>llynch @darkwing.uoregon.edu (541) 346-1774 >>> >>>FAQ Updates: >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>18. How will the license provisions in Section 9.5 affect the contents >>>of Standards related documents like RFCs and Internet Drafts. >>> >>>The IETF IPR rules in force when such documents were published still >>>apply and Section 9.5 has been updated to reflect community concerns >>>about the effect of licensing terms. The new text reads: >>> >>>"9.5 Licenses. >>> >>>The Trust (acting through the Trustees) shall have the right to grant >>>licenses for the use of the Trust Assets on such terms, subject to >>>Section 7.1, as the Trustees deem appropriate; provided, however, that >>>the Trust shall not grant any license that would be deemed a transfer >>>of ownership or abandonment of any Trust Assets under applicable law. >>>Specifically, any license granted by the Trust for the use of the >>>Trust Assets consisting of IPR other than rights in IETF >>>standards-related documents (such as RFCs, Internet Drafts and the >>>like) that have been acquired by the Trust through non-exclusive >>>licenses granted by their contributors pursuant to the IETF >>>community-approved procedures currently set forth in RFC 3978, and any >>>community-approved updates and revisions thereto, shall include >>>provisions stating that (a) the licensee agrees to grant and assign to >>>the Trust all right, title, and interest it may have or claim in any >>>derivative works of licensee that are based on or incorporate the IPR, >>>and (b) the licensee's use of the IPR and any goodwill associated >>>therewith shall inure to the benefit of the Trust." >>> >>>19. Which of the assets listed in Schedule A will be transferred when >>>the IETF Trust is established? Will the Trustees publish an accounting >>>of these assets? >>> >>>All of the Marks, Domain Names, and Current Data listed in Schedule A >>>will be transferred at closing. In addition, Historical Data that is >>>currently available from available from the servers currently operated >>>by or for the IETF Secretariat (i.e. data available on spinning disk) >>>will also be transferred at closing. The Trustees will inventory all >>>assets and provide a full accounting to the IETF community. Historical >>>data which is currently in-accessible will be subject to the >>>conditions outlined in sub-sections b-g. When and if additional data >>>becomes available, those assets will transfer to the IETF Trust and >>>will be added to the inventory. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>IETF-Announce mailing list >>>IETF-Announce@xxxxxxxx >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf mailing list >> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf