Actually quite a lot of people disagree. And this would HARDLY be considered a MS friendly venue, though clearly as someone mentioned you've got a gripe with Microsoft and not proprietary standards otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned PDF. > > >>>>> On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 18:59:10 +0100, Brian E Carpenter > <brc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said: > > Brian> Here's the text. You can pick up a map at the > Brian> concierge desk in the Westin. I ate at Wild > Brian> Garlic last night and it was excellent. > > Mr. Carpenter, the IETF Chair; > > Your restaurant recommendations, I do take seriously. > > The goers go, the talkers talk and the doers do. > Remember! > > Of course many now visit the ietf.org site primarily for the > restaurant guide. And now that is only available as a .ppt file. MANY? Without any quantification that may be true, but so what? 200 people looked for a restaurant and printed that document? Do you think people not at the conference are sitting around wondering where to eat in Vancouver, and have been left by the wayside because they went to the IETF site for DINING ADVICE and are now forever dissuaded from contributing? And of course, there also happens to be a free viewer(JUST LIKE ACROBAT), can be opened by the FREE AND OPEN OO.org app and these files can be opend by any microsoft app just about.... > Is big business now so entrenched at the ietf that use of > Microsoft's PowerPoint is being encouraged at the ietf.org website? > Where is it encouraged? Who encouraged it? What official document has ever been put out in this format? > True to form, like an experienced cult leader, you have again > trivialized a real problem. > Typically I believe comments like this indicate an evangelist at work. When you essentially insult someone when they disagree with you, you've clearly indicated that solving a problem is not your goal, creating it is. > My email was not about restaurants or a need for the text. > So then you're saying that document was just an excuse to harp on something you wanted to complain about anyway right? Say out of those 200 people who downloaded the map, 10 were unable to read it because they don't have access to any windows office programs, open office, or anything else for some reason. How does that compare to sending an email to 10,000 people? Personally I think you've used up much more of peoples valuable time then that document ever could. How do you feel about that? > Publication of anything in Microsoft PowerPoint format at the > ietf.org website is utterly inappropriate and wrong. If > IETF's Best Current Practices are to be taken seriously, > ietf.org website should lead by example. > > A responsible IETF Chair would have: > > - Recognized and acknowledged that publication of > anything at the ietf.org web site in Microsoft's > PowerPoint format is wrong. > According to you? It appears you've convinced nobody (or very few) of your incongrous goals, yet are happy to pass judgement on a very hard working member of the community. > - Immediately addressed the problem and republished > in an Open/Libre/Free format. > Several people did that, but clearly that's not what you were looking for. > - Addressed the broader question of what are > the Open/Libre/Free formats appropriate for web > publication and what constitutes an Open/Libre/Free > format. > What does that have to do with the IETF? Did you make any effort to see if issues like this have been addressed before burdening the list? > In between good meals, perhaps you can also consider your > responsibilities. > In what way is this document an official IETF document? Did it get approved by consensus or running code? Does it have an RFC number? Or is it possible someone was just trying to help people who were hungry out? I'm a pragmatist, mostly I'm aware of what's going on and I try to handle it as best as I can. You didn't try to help anyone with a solution, or even a recommendation that conforms to your stated goals, and seemed happily able to waste a lot of peolple's time. <repeated for emphasis> > My email was not about restaurants or a need for the text. > </repeated> I admit it. Stuff like that pisses me off. Not long ago somebody said in an email that they didn't read some documents, nor care to, but felt quite able to comment on the process, and it did the same thing. Luckly this isn't a forum where someone like you can just YELL LOUDER THAN EVERYONE ELSE to try to affect people's opinions like people did in high school. As far as I'm concerend the only thing you can claim credit for is causing 500,000 emails or so to circulate without solving any problem at all. And it's not like everyone doesn't send something not well thought out from time to time, but you responded: <more repetition for emphasis> > True to form, like an experienced cult leader, you have again > trivialized a real problem. > </more repetition> By insulting the current leader as well as the group. Care to comment on what your true motivation is? -Tom "I send all my emails in plain text but don't force my ideals on anyone" Gal
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