I'm not even going to attempt to read this thread today (evening in Beijing after a long flight and a long day). But don't imagine that I and the PESCI team aren't aware of the meta problem and believe that we have a shot at fixing it this time. I will read the thread as soon as I can but may I ask that people try to do what I asked: focus on section 4 of the draft and on how that section can be more tightly focused on specific principles for change. And I really don't see the value of cross-posting when the pesci-discuss list exists for exactly this discussion. Brian _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf