Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol

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Dear Pekka,
I went through a few of your documents to better understand the basic of HIP. When I told you I prefer models: your proposition could fit my model. But if I see identification, authentication and routing matters being addressed, I see proposed changes enough to suspect that this will affect the level above (DNS) and below (IP addressing). I would suggest you try to think of simple, robust, scalable global Internet architecture which would include your proposition and permit a transparent transition. I think this is possible in what I call the "multi-Internet", I do not know if this is possible in the "mono-Internet" you refer to. Because I feel you add an intelligence on the wire?

May I suggest a test? How would you support "ISP rotation": your Elm Street person has several addresses and wants to rotate them with a defined pattern within the same relation, for example for security purposes? (you might call this a directed multi-homing?)

I note that you could also associate HI to predetermined paths as well (anti-tapping protection)?
jfc

At 09:57 15/09/2005, Pekka Nikander wrote:
So, as I state in my little web page, I think we really should
work hard to create a new waist for the architecture.   I, of
course, have my own theory where the new waist should be and how
it should be implemented,

Well, don't be shy: where can we absorb these insights?

Since you ask:

Unfortunately I don't have any concise summary of my "theory", but
wading through my academic papers (available through my home page)
should give a fairly good view.  I would focus on the following three
papers, roughly in this order:

1. Pekka Nikander, Jukka Ylitalo, and Jorma Wall, "Integrating
Security, Mobility, and Multi-Homing in a HIP Way," in Proceedings of
Network and Distributed Systems Security Symposium (NDSS'03),
February 6-7, 2003, San Diego, CA, pp. 87-99, Internet Society,
February, 2003.

2. Jukka Ylitalo, Pekka Nikander, "A new Name Space for End-Points:
Implementing secure Mobility and Multi-homing across the two versions
of IP," in Proceedings of the Fifth European Wireless Conference,
Mobile and Wireless Systems beyond 3G (EW2004), pp. 435-441,
Barcelona, Spain, February 24-27, 2004.

3. Pekka Nikander, Jari Arkko, and Börje Ohlman, Host Identity
Indirection Infrastructure (Hi3)," in Proceedings of The Second
Swedish National Computer Networking Workshop 2004 (SNCNW2004),
Karlstad University, Karlstad, Sweden, Nov 23-24, 2004.

Especially the last one is pretty dense; it takes time to understand
all that we are trying to say there.

All three (and more) are available at
http://www.tml.tkk.fi/~pnr/publications/index.html

If you prefer slideware, see our IETF 62 plenary slides:
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/plenaryt.html
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/slides/plenaryt-1.pdf

But, as I wrote, I am trying to take distance from these and trying
to understand alternative approaches, like "virtualising IP" or
"domain-based internetworking" that some people are thinking about.
It is now mostly other people that are continuing the HIP-based work,
for example, at the CEC funded Ambient Networks project and at the
IRTF HIP Research Group.

--Pekka Nikander



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