As I had already written to the original enquirer privately, I agree that the research needs the 'design diary' aspects as well as the output snapshots. The lack of a permanent archive for some of the mailing lists will be a problem for historians and others looking back on the IETF process. Personal interviews would be the only way of getting any idea of the corridor discussions. In trying to assist Syed Farooq Ahmed, I tried to access the old IPng mailing list that was hosted on playground.sun.com: although there is still an IPv6/IPng page there, the mailing list archives are not accessible in their original location. I don't know whether the old IPng mailing list was mirrored onto the IETF site as 'history' for the new IPv6 list when the IPng mailing list closed two years or so ago, and the current archive interface makes it essentially impossible to check (just how many 'Next Page' clicks do you need to retreat about 6000 messages?). A little research showed that the MARC (Mailing listARChive) at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ has the sequence back to 1995 in a more accessible form, but even that misses the earliest exchanges. Maybe we need to pay a bit more attention to our history! Regards, Elwyn > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Stewart Bryant > Sent: 08 April 2005 10:43 > To: Carl Malamud > Cc: Syed Farooq Ahmed; ietf@xxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Intermediate Drafts of network layer protocols > > > > Carl Malamud wrote: > > Hi - > > > > I think a research request to study how protocols are designed and > features > > added over time deserves a more accurate answer than an official > > incantation of "they're gone." > > > > Try this site: > > http://www.watersprings.org/ > > > > You'll find all drafts and diff's between them. > > > > That will only give you a part of the story. You also need > the WG emails, the WG proceedings and details of the current > external environment. > > Then to understand the change from last draft to RFC you need the > telechat minutes and emails between the AD and editors. > > To complete the picture you also need a fair number of private emails > and the recollections of a numbers of flys that were on the walls of > the the IETF corridors and surrounding restaurants. > > Regards > > Stewart > > > Regards, > > > > Carl > > > > > >>Unfortunately, as you will see by looking at any current > >>Internet Draft, these drafts are automatically withdrawn after > >>6 months (or as soon as they are updatded), so you won't find old > >>ones on the ietf.org site. You may find them on some unofficial > >>sites. > >> > >>If you look at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ipv6-charter.html > >>you will find all the *current* IPv6 drafts and pointers to some of > >>the obsolete IPv6 RFCs, as well as the current ones. > >> > >> Brian > >> > >>Syed Farooq Ahmed wrote: > >> > >>>hello, > >>> > >>>Can i get intermediate drafts of any standard network layer protocol > like IPv4 or IPv6. I am studying how protocols are designed and the > features added over time etc. > >>> > >>>Normally, those drafts are removed and not found on the internet, only > the last complete RFC remains. > >>> > >>>I would be thankful if any one of you can send me such drafts > (documents). > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>> > >>>- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>--------------------------------- > >>>Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Ietf mailing list > >>>Ietf@xxxxxxxx > >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Ietf mailing list > >>Ietf@xxxxxxxx > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ietf mailing list > > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf