--On Monday, 31 January, 2005 14:00 -0500 Leslie Daigle <leslie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Howdy, > > I'm a little concerned about hacking the appeals path on the > fly (i.e., dropping the IESG and going straight to IAB), but > I can live with that. > > WRT this: > > Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > > - Removed the para about metrics. That's not part of this > section. > > Could go under "IAD responsibilities". But I think they're > not critical. > > I think it should appear in the document. Either in the IAD > responsibilities (as you've suggested), or I can send more text > as to how it pertains to appeals. That is, it's easier to > avoid appeals when there is concrete data on the table, and/or > support them where appropriate. > > I don't think people want more text at this point. So, perhaps > just putting it in the IAD section is the easiest path at this > time. Leslie, FWIW, in the spirit of Sam's note, I'd like to suggest that this doesn't belong in the document at all, but in some informal list of things we expect the IAD to do and will hold her or him (and the IAOC) accountable if enough of it isn't done. That is the "less text" rather than "no more" theme. I don't consider that a showstopper one way or the other, however... If it is to be put in as an IAD responsibility, it needs to be clear that "better measurement" is _not_ more important than getting the job done. My version of your comment about appeals is that, if the job is being done, and done well, meaningful appeals won't happen. If it is not being done, then the major benefit of extensive data is either to help prove that it isn't being done (which will probably be obvious) or to aid in telling those launching the appeal to go away... the latter if extensive, but irrelevant, data are collected. And I note that the original text did not require relevant metrics, interpretable metrics, or the like, just metrics. It shouldn't: those terms are nearly meaningless without careful definitions, and attempting to make those definitions would draw us into more and more detail that doesn't belong in the BCP even if we could agree on them. But "there will be metrics" don't necessarily aid in getting the job done and may actually impede it. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf