Based on the comments over the last several days and my
interpretation of RFC 3683/BCP 83, I ask the firm of
Upper Side, Paris France, to STOP POSTING COMMERCIAL NOTICES
to the IETF general list ietf@xxxxxxxxx
I quote from RFC 3683/BCP 83:
"Guidelines have been developed for dealing with abusive
behavior (c.f., Section 3.2 of [1] and [2]). Although not
exhaustive, examples of abusive or otherwise inappropriate
postings to IETF mailing lists include:
o unsolicited bulk e-mail;
o discussion of subjects unrelated to IETF policy, meetings,
activities, or technical concerns;
o unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject;
and,
o announcements of conferences, events, or activities that
are not sponsored or endorsed by the Internet Society or
IETF."
I made a phone call to Upper Side this morning (always pleasant
when an transatlantic phone call costs less than the cup of
coffee in my hand), was told Peter Lewis left the employ of
Upper Side two years ago. The two managing partners of Upper
Side, Remi Scavenius and Michel Gosse, are receiving copies
of this email.
Upper Side is a for-profit organizations that organizes
conferences and provides training in IT. The quality or value of
their activities is not the point. Such commercial announcements
are not to be sent to IETF lists.
Thomas Gal states that he sent email to the company on November 11
objecting to such SPAM commercial emails and he received no
reply. As a personal courtesy, I will appreciate a reply to
this request from Upper Side management off-list.
If I am wrong in understanding IETF policy, please let me know.
Gene Gaines
gene.gaines@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sterling, Virginia USA
On Thursday, December 16, 2004, 2:45:51 AM, Harald wrote:
> Peter.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx has already been denied posting rights on at least
> one IETF WG mailing list because of this behaviour.
> Is it time to dig out RFC 3683/BCP 83?
> BTW - has anyone, anywhere ever seen a response from him/them when they
> have been asked to stop spamming the IETF lists?
> Harald
> --On onsdag, desember 15, 2004 17:35:11 -0800 Thomas Gal
> <ThomasGal@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Harald and community,
>>
>> Observation/Comment from a concerned member. I've never really
>> complained about anything before, but if I search over the last couple of
>> months (I did a searchback to Oct 1) across the following mailing lists to
>> which I'm subscribed:
>>
>> XCON,AVT,IPSEC,IPTEL,SIP,SIPPING,MMUSIC etc
>>
>> I get notices from Peter Lewis and Gunther Palmer, sometimes I get
>> 5+ copies of these notices. For example I have 11 notices about the summer
>> '05 wimax summit in paris france that I haven't deleted floating around my
>> mailbox! 5 Just today between SIMPLE,XCON,SIPPING,MMUSIC, and SIP!!!!! Who
>> knows how many more went out. I thought this was a little bit
>> unacceptable(I'm trying to be polite for some reason I guess) as the IETF
>> itself has 1 announce list for announcing things, and as far as I'm
>> concerned this is basically spam. I sent a message on November 11th which
>> is attached basically saying to the principals of this organization that:
>>
>> - -I'm receiving multiple notices,
>> - -think it's unreasonable,
>> - -the people sending the notices are not participants on the lists so are
>> clearly exploiting the mailing list
>> - -that the IETF has an announce list which they should work out
>> appropriate submission and distribution through, as I'm sure that IETF
>> memebers would in fact like to be notified of their events, but
>> appropriately.
>>
>> I'm copying them on this message again as well, and personally I
>> feel that if you look at
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6mvnc
>> - -and-
>> http://tinyurl.com/452e5
>>
>> You can see that peter lewis has been sending bulk unsolicited email
>> through IETF lists for some time, and Gunter Palmer appears to be a new up
>> and coming distributor.
>>
>> That said, I never got a response, so I'm inclined to say we should
>> boot them from IETF mailing lists, and ideally get a response and arrange
>> to have them submit 1 notice 1 time to go out to the IETF announce list,
>> or perhaps even a separate list which is specifically for folks wishing to
>> address the IETF population at large. Certainly only willing participants
>> to the IETF/IETF announce list should be getting these notices. I do
>> recall a gentleman mentioning in DC something about coordinating
>> reasonable official submissions, and I feel this falls in line with that
>> request. There's enough of a problem with spam that we can't do anything
>> about, and I think dealing with this situation properly could have the
>> potential to not only reduce some junk mail, but also allow that
>> information to go out in an appropriate fashion to willing recipients,
>> and perhaps educate some people (who's company supposedly caters to
>> technology folk) along the way of proper edicate for such matters. And if
>> they don't respond, who cares, just boot em and let them suffer the
>> consequences.
>>
>> Perhaps comments from a few more IETF folk could establish that this
>> crap is not welcome, or is it just me?
>>
>> And to the principals of this orgnaization. Who are you to not
>> respond to something like this? This is very indicative of pathetic
>> business practices, and makes me inclined to say bad things about your
>> organizations morals, and the organization itself, and frankly the people
>> on top who don't respond as well. Don't you realize that the people who
>> get the most spam and are more annoyed than anyone by it are the audience
>> you supposedly are catering to?
>>
>>
>>
>> - -Tom
>>
>> thomasgal@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sip-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:sip-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Gunter
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:28 AM
>>> To: sip@xxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [Sip] WiMAX Summit'05 - Paris - France
>>>
>>> . What is the business model for WiMAX?
>>> . What do we learn from earlier deployments?
>>> . What about the future extensions of the standard?
>>> . How is addressed the interoperability challenge?
>>>
>>> These questions, among others, will be addressed during the
>>> second edition of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris
>>> next 5-8 April 2005.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get all details at:
>>>
>>> http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm
>>> <http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> iQA/AwUBQcDmA+q9bQOx/5ayEQLGFACeLMNxzQyiRwgB0n5KdxPHD0s3LxAAnRcl
>> NfKI62xgIbF44qYivQyJ4Dmj
>> =IY/A
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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