> From: Robert Elz <kre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > the "we don't need to change from v4, ever" attitude is simply > absurd. Ahem. Let's go to the tape: >>> if life gives you lemons, you can either sit around with a sour >>> look on your face, or make lemonade. NAT's make me look sour too, >>> but I'd rather make lemonade. I'm hardly sugessting we live with the status quo. But I see that over a decade of failure still hasn't woken people up. That's OK, I'm happy to let reality pound a few more spikes into people's brains, since apparently nothing less is going to get through. (And Marshall, I have to apologize - I guess it really did need your "small, furry animal" spiel in order to get through.) The rest of the world will just continue and increase their treatment of the IETF as brain-damage, and their routing around it... I am reminded of an old story about Ross Perot. General Motors (for reasons that no doubt seemed good at the time) bought his computer services company, EDS, and used stock to do it. Since Ross had been the major owner of EDS, be became a large owner of GM, and was rewarded with a seat on the board. As a member of management, and as somehow who had a large chunk of his worth tied up in the company, he set out to see how the company was doing. He was rather unhappy at what he discovered, to say the least. His pithy commentary on GM's then exceedingly lengthy and sclerotic new car development process was unforgettable: "It takes five years to design a new car in this country. Heck, we won the Pacific War in four." Not even my powers of pithy commentary can scale the heights needed to adequately comment on the fact that we've now consumed more than twice *that* much time. Windows 3.1! Pfui. Noel _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf