Would the IEEE 802 Plenaries have comparable geographical/logistical requirements to IETF meetings? Their next few plenaries are scheduled in San Antonio, Atlanta, San Francisco, Vancouver, New Orleans, San Diego, and Dallas. All but one are in the US, and all are in North America. I attended one plenary at Hilton Head, and talked to people about another held on Maui, both resort areas. This was before the crash, though, so perhaps money is tighter now. I'm not advocating doing the same thing; just thought another data point might be helpful. http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/meeting/future_meetings.html -- Robin Uyeshiro P.S. Honolulu has a new convention center. -----Original Message----- From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John C Klensin Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:59 AM To: Lars Eggert; Sam Hartman Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: IETF 62 --On Monday, 20 September, 2004 08:54 +0200 Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Secondly, I'm concerned that people are proposing optimizing >> for pleasant climate and good vacation spots. I come to the >> IETF to get work done; I'd rather be at meetings where the >> other participants have the same goal. We should be somewhat >> careful of optimizing for enjoyable location. I'd rather see >> us optimize for who can attend and cost. > > If you have data that shows an inverse proportionality between > the enjoyability of past locations and the generated IETF > output, please post it. Lars, I have no idea about actual IETF experience, but, based on experience with other organizations and meetings of similar technical focus, the key issue is not whether those who go can get work done, or even whether some people decide to go it if is a nice place. Rather, it is the tendency of people who have to review and approve travel to look at a destination, pronounce the words "probable boggle" and then say "no". And I've seen enough situations in which that has occurred to make that a real concern. It probably isn't enough of a concern to say "we absolutely should, or should not, meet there", but it should be a significant consideration. On other observation on the US situation. In the few years, we have had a significant problem with participants from some countries getting to US meetings at all due to increasing scrutiny of visa applications and consequent difficulties in getting visas. Sometimes, those delays have been equivalent to visa denial, even when no formal denial occurs. Those restrictions are qualitatively different from, e.g., the fingerprint issue, since they prevent someone from even making the decision as to whether they are willing to put up with the marginal aggravation and intrusion to attend. Classes of IETF participants are excluded entirely depending on their nationality or normal residency, and that has a direct on IETF openness and global participation. That is, fwiw, I've been suggesting that we reduce the focus on meetings in the US for a few years now. As others have pointed out, doing that isn't quite as easy as would appear to be the case at first glance but, IMO, we should keep trying. regards, john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf