[Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-wkumari-rfc8110-to-ieee-02.txt> (Transferring Opportunistic Wireless Encryption to the IEEE 802.11 Working Group) to Informational RFC

[Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Eric,

I think your proposal makes sense.  When the RFC derived from this ID is published, you can add a link to RFC 8110 with the usual "updated-by" pointing to the new RFC.  Anyone reviewing that will then get the onward pointer to the IEEE work.  

That's in the spirit of RFC 2854, which both registered text/html as a mime type and provided the onward pointers away from the IETF work on HTML to the W3C's work that superseded it.  In that particular case, the document came along late enough that the work in the W3C was complete; as a result, RFC 2854 obsoletes RFC 1980, RFC 1967, RFC 1866, and RFC 2070.  Crucially, it does so based on the onward pointers and not work documented in the RFC itself.  I think you can safely use that pattern to update RFC 8110 with this document.  If you really want to be thorough, you can update this document at some later time to note the completed IEEE work and then use the update to obsolete RFC 8110 and this document, but I frankly feel like the pointer to the IEEE in this is enough.

Just my opinion, of course,

regards,

Ted

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 10:12 AM Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <evyncke=40cisco.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rich,

 

Indeed, this is “unknown territory” for the IETF publication process.

 

As the sponsoring AD and after discussion with the authors and some other IESG members, it seems that:

- obsoleting RFC 8110 is not correct as the protocol is unchanged (as noted by Peter Yee)

- an erratum cannot be filed as there is nothing changed in the IETF consensus when RFC 8110 was published

 

I.e., an update tag seems the most suitable way to ‘link’ RFC 8110 to this I-D, which contains a link to IEEE 801.11 WG. There is already an IEEE Liaison Statement about this I-D and I intend to formally reply to the IEEE LS once this RFC is published.

 

Obviously, we are all open for discussion on this unusual procedure.

 

Regards,

 

-éric

 

From: Peter Yee <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, 7 August 2024 at 23:25
To: Salz, Rich <rsalz@xxxxxxxxxx>, last-call@xxxxxxxx <last-call@xxxxxxxx>
Cc: draft-wkumari-rfc8110-to-ieee@xxxxxxxx <draft-wkumari-rfc8110-to-ieee@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Last-Call] Re: Last Call: <draft-wkumari-rfc8110-to-ieee-02.txt> (Transferring Opportunistic Wireless Encryption to the IEEE 802.11 Working Group) to Informational RFC

Rich,

        That's an interesting question. The usual case is that a new IETF specification obsoletes an old one. Can a non-IETF specification obsolete an IETF specification? It's fairly certain that IEEE 802.11-2024 will not contain a statement saying, "Obsoletes RFC 8110". I don't think an erratum quite covers this case. What would it's disposition be? "Hold for document update"? ;-)

        At the current time, I'm not aware that IEEE 802.11-2024 will change OWE, so it may be a straight transfer of the text or something close to it. Nothing is really obsoleted then in RFC 8110. This is more about transferring the future evolution of and responsibility for the text of RFC 8110 to IEEE.

                -Peter

On 8/7/24, 12:52 PM, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:rsalz@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:


> the simple need of allowing IEEE 802.11 to subsume RFC 8110.

You mean that 8110 would be obsoleted by the IEEE doc? Do we mark that somehow in the errata or something?






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