These questions have been responded to on tools-discuss. Please see: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/2BCNmaMdQO4KLQIjxbTzZh55MIE/ Jay > On 12 Oct 2023, at 12:35, Sandy Wills <Sandy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Martin, Keith, et al, > > That document also continues on to say: > > "After this, you may need some additional steps based on if you want to keep your old archives around..." > > Clearly, the people who wrote that upgrade considerations document considered this issue and believe that it can be mitigated. The people who are doing the upgrade may not be able to make the change completely transparent but they should be able to make it fairly painless. Can we hear from them how painful getting to the archive will be? > > > On 10/12/23 00:18, Martin J. Dürst wrote: >> Hello Jason, others, >> >> On 2023-10-12 04:20, Livingood, Jason wrote: >>> I do not know the details but suspect all the changes are on the server-side, and they web pages for subscribing or viewing archives may be a little more modern. See https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html >> >> Thanks for the pointer. There, I find: >> >> >>>> >> Other considerations >> >> Before you upgrade, you should consider a few things like: >> >> URLs to archived messages will break, unless you take extra steps to keep them around. Upgrade mechanism makes sure to import all your archived messages in the new system, but, all the URLs to the new messages are going to be different. >> >>>> >> >> Simply put, this may be a dealbreaker. At W3C, it definitely would. Some emails and other IETF documents may contain pointers (URIs) to archived emails, and all these pointers would stop to work. >> >> Also, since quite a while, emails going through the IETF mailing list software contain Archived-At headers. It is quite possible that these are also affected (i.e. would also become unusable). If that's the case, then this upgrade should be stopped. >> >> The continuous availability and usability of older references is at least as important as what happens with the user interface (Tom's main point). For the user interface, most users get used to most changes quite quickly. But messing up old URIs may not be easy to fix. >> >> Regards, Martin. >> >>> JL >>> >>> On 10/11/23, 12:25, "ietf on behalf of tom petch" <ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx <mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx> on behalf of daedulus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:daedulus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I note that the RFP specifies an upgrade from V2 to V3 which to me implies changes. >>> >>> >>> I cannot see any mention of education for end users which, experience tells me, is where many projects get a bad name. I come in on Monday morning and the muttering is loud and long because we can no longer do the work in the way we could on Friday because the system was upgraded the day before and the new version lacks features no-one knew we were using! The answer is then, sometimes, go read the manufacturer's man pages. Mmmm >>> >>> >>> So what changes will end users see going from V2 to V3? What functions will we lose? >>> >>> >>> If you were changing the version of IOS I would know exactly where to look and what to expect and there are doubtless those on this list who will feel the same about this software change but equally there will be those - like me - to whom it is a black box (or perhaps a black hole). >>> >>> >>> Tom Petch >>> >> > -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@xxxxxxxx
