RE: survey on Friday IETF sessions

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First, let me apologize for bcc-ing, rather than cc-ing, the IETF list. I _told_ you I was burned out, and I'm not even on the IESG (although I'm clearly getting old).

Several people have written me and said, essentially, "not everyone is on the IESG, and _we_ are still fresh on Friday". Ok, that is fair. But we claim that we want cross-area review, more participation by people outside the core of a WG, and fewer late surprises. Those suggestions either require much more significant changes than tuning the schedule (I personally favor changes in those areas, but...) or require designing our schedules around the overloaded. Or we could designate the extra day as reserved for only those sessions that didn't need much external attention. We've tried the latter. It didn't work well, but it might be worth considering again.

Just my thoughts -- and I am still not recovered enough that I am sure I'll believe them at the end of the week.

     john



-----Original Message-----
From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: survey on Friday IETF sessions
...
An additional thought about Friday meetings that the survey
doesn't capture...

Whether the problem is "Friday" or "after four days", our
meetings are intense enough that many of the people who are
participating in several WGs, the plenaries, etc., end up in
a  state by Friday such that they aren't real functional
(terms  like "wasted" and "zombie" come to mind).  Especially
since that  high-activity group includes all, or almost all,
of the IAB and  IESG, Friday sessions seem to have rather low
productivity or at  least discussions that are unusually
risky in terms of reaching  well-thought-out conclusions.

Many years ago, we tried having the IESG meet Friday mornings
(in a meeting slot) to give them an opportunity to reprise
the  week, identify issues, make plans, highlight things
needing  cross-area attention, etc.   We finally gave it up
after  noticing that we spent a lot of time staring at each
other,  unable to form complete sentences and showing other
signs of  mental exhaustion.

Unless we can figure out a way to reduce the level of
exhaustion  that comes with our present schedule, I'd
question the  productivity of adding a full extra day, even
if no other  considerations applied.  For example, I've not
in favor of it,  but Friday (or fifth-day) sessions would
make a lot more sense  to me if we dropped all evening
sessions, including the  plenaries, and moved them into the
daytime.

Or perhaps I'm just getting old :-(

john


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