Hi Keith, all, Having being subject of such exclusion tactics that were not properly addressed by the chairs I agree there are very BIG problems at IETF that makes participating in the organization a very RISKY business for industries that want to bring open and important ideas to IETF… if they are not in “the club”. As a consequence.. we are re-evaluating the participation in several WGs as it might delay important investments across the globe simply because.. of incompetence and ignorance. Serious changes in the education of chairs and in the process itself are ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. Just my 2 cents, Cheers, Dr. Pala > On Jul 14, 2023, at 11:28 AM, Keith Moore <moore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 7/13/23 16:50, John C Klensin wrote: > >> I can propose some specific changes to the Guidance statement if >> people think that would be justified, but the key question right >> now is whether everyone is ok with the current situation, >> including holding interim meetings on very short notice to >> anyone outside the WG, without ADs having any responsibility to >> be involved and sign off on them, without agendas at least a >> week in advance, and/or very close to IETF f2f meetings. > > John, > > I have the same concerns you stated, and I'm NOT ok with the current situation. I'll also note that some WGs will always want to find reasons to exclude those "not in the club", for various reasons, and therefore it's necessary to constantly watch WGs to see whether they're using exclusionary tactics. Any claims of WG consensus by a group that has actively excluded open participation, including by not announcing meetings or by holding interim or virtual meetings in time or space conflict with plenary meetings, or not getting explicit written approval from their ADs, should be ignored. > >> And, of course, if we need to make changes, whether that is >> appropriately done by asking the IESG to tune the Guidance >> statement(s) or whether it is time to prepare an update for 2418 >> about this set of topics. > > I favor the latter. > > Keith > >
