It appears that Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@xxxxxxx> said: >On 21/12/2022 14:26, Keith Moore wrote: >> As for the general problem of spam filtering being responsible for the >> failure of legitimate mail to be delivered, I also object to the >> "nothing can be done" attitude. > >The difficulty comes from the fact that there is currently a real >consolidation in email providers to a handful of very large cloud >servers run (poorly) by faceless companies that offer no recourse for >fixing false positives. It is a commercial decision. ... With all due respect, you have no clue what it's like to run a large mail system. I only have some idea from talking to people who do. While I am no happier than anyone else about filtering mistakes, or the stream of spam from Gmail accounts that shows up in my inbox every morning, it is not like they could snap their fingers and fix it. The large mail systems have dedicated spammers who only attack specific systems with specific attacks using hacks like targeted BGP injection so that the traffic is invisible to everyone else. I also have to wonder about people who consistently pick the very cheapest vendor (not just for e-mail) and then complain bitterly about how bad it is. When a service is free, well, sometimes you get what you pay for. If e-mail is important to you, it's worth paying for and their are paid services like Fastmail (who are quite active in the IETF) who do a good job. R's, John