Hi Brian, > Valery, > > I'm not commenting further on the PR action as such. We are a diverse > group of people and many here are not native speakers of the language. I > suggest that using sarcasm or satire in this group is an ineffective and > confusing method. If half the audience takes the sarcasm or the satire > seriously, the argument will cancel itself out. Just to clarify my point. I didn'n say that using sarcasm (satire, irony, etc.) in IETF is good (or bad). I think it very much depends on the situation, the topic, the way it is used, etc. and I agree that it's better to avoid this form in case of any doubt. My point was that just using sarcasm or satire should not be a foundation for the proposed action, since it is just a form (perhaps not the best one). Regards, Valery. > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > On 26-Oct-22 20:27, Valery Smyslov wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I do not support this PR action. > > > > I read the provided messages and I am not convinced that they justify the > accusation of expressing racism. > > And while I admit that many of these messages are harsh and sarcastic > and sometimes are on the verge of acceptable > > (definitely this verge is subjective), it seems to me that the sarcastic form > of these messages was used by the author > > to make his arguments more expressive. The arguments themselves often > look worth to consider. > > > > "Not only is it extremely cruel to persecute in this brief life those who do > not think the way we do, > > but I do not know if it might be too presumptuous to declare their eternal > damnation." > > > > Voltaire, A Treatise on Toleration (1763), translated by Richard Hooker > > > > https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/11/04/voltaire-a-treatise-on-toleration- > 1763/ (excerpt) > > or https://earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/voltaire1763.pdf (full text) > > > > Regards, > > Valery Smyslov. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: last-call [mailto:last-call-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of IETF > Chair > >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:16 PM > >> To: last-call@xxxxxxxx > >> Subject: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins > >> > >> Following community feedback after various incidents, as documented > below, the > >> IESG has initiated a posting rights (PR) action that would restrict the > posting > >> rights of Dan Harkins, as per the procedures found in BCP 83 (RFC 3683). > >> Specifically, his posting privileges to these lists would be suspended: > >> > >> * admin-discuss > >> * gendispatch > >> * ietf > >> * terminology > >> > >> In the IESG's opinion, this individual has a history of sending emails that > are > >> inconsistent with the IETF Guidelines for Conduct (RFC 7154) and thereby > >> "disrupt the consensus-driven process" (RFC 3683). Among these are > contributions > >> that: > >> > >> * Express racism in the form of denying, belittling, and ridiculing anti- > racist > >> sentiment and efforts > >> > >> * Are rude and abusive, and often amount to insulting ridicule > >> > >> (Links to examples of such emails sent to the lists above during the last > two > >> years are provided at the end of this email.) > >> > >> Multiple attempts have been made to enter into a private discussion > with this > >> individual, both by IESG and community members, to communicate > disquiet with his > >> conduct on the lists. These attempts to restore respectful and courteous > conduct > >> on the lists have been rebuffed with communication that can be > considered both > >> antagonistic and hostile, and the pattern of behavior observed has > continued. > >> > >> The IESG also notes that the following actions have already been taken in > >> response to the individual's actions: > >> > >> * Two I-Ds were removed from the public archive due to their offensive > nature: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-les-white-intersectional- > dots > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-les-white-tls-preferred- > pronouns > >> (following these links displays the tombstone notice explaining their > removal) > >> > >> * His posting rights were restricted on the admin-discuss mailing list: > >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/admin-discuss/ZANH2VPN- > U8VMvvOWLb5l03FdCs/ > >> > >> * A final public warning was issued on the gendispatch mailing list: > >> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/68a4amMa1aiaRUPzPGg > XdiY9gHg/ > >> > >> None of the attempts to discuss his participation style or warn the > individual > >> have led to any improvements. The IESG therefore believes that a PR > action is > >> the correct response to his continued problematic behavior across a > number of > >> different lists. > >> > >> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final > >> comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > >> last-call@xxxxxxxx mailing lists by 27 October 2022. Exceptionally, > comments may > >> be sent to iesg@xxxxxxxx instead. If sending private feedback to the IESG, > >> please indicate if you would be open to having your comments > anonymized and > >> shared in a summary. > >> > >> Please note: Comments should be limited to the criteria described in BCP > 83, > >> notably on whether the individual in question has engaged in postings > that are > >> "unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" in a > manner > >> disruptive enough to warrant this action. > >> > >> Lars Eggert > >> IETF Chair, on behalf of the IESG > >> –- > >> > >> Examples of problematic emails during the last two years include: > >> > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/zdq3F0PV40Cyw5ooj0or > OWaYyUw/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/i- > d7HlWgrkmrVlC7JZQSXDwIJCQ/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/YhPI9zZ_3xfidt5V- > ORRnET36yY/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/B33zk8VfOYt4b4Cj- > kIHXG3AXdg/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/d3iDS4WNkCJA3aMFnX > 2HjP4tsps/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/- > On8AHrdnnCMlJOOyb1M1nlYMpk/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/n6UMvDuYLKmmvpP1aj > ICFvf634M/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/QCdjDbokmlARcwVqQ1 > TV3Rlz7eQ/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/X6OF0MBKAzyLhYaAfAx > S6srXRNw/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/idJhG1MsLmKHyRlaAafc > W2JF6Z8/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipsec/LoGSVatZ4EsYRq4K52rmvRZTn > dk/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/pl2lVqhtF4Z- > 0YuTjhCOmdyi1qE/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/DFgnF_j8py_eMBGI1IUFdMahTK > w/ > >> * > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/T3oCpY3BbTNLXWAWsC > nFvahRLUQ/ > >> * https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/admin- > discuss/xLuz4WTCm5ibIiMVN5ID8OWsCI0/ > >> > >> -- > >> last-call mailing list > >> last-call@xxxxxxxx > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call > > -- last-call mailing list last-call@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call
