Hi Brian,
On 10/26/22 12:46 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
Valery,
I'm not commenting further on the PR action as such. We are a diverse
group of people and many here are not native speakers of the language.
I suggest that using sarcasm or satire in this group is an ineffective
and confusing method. If half the audience takes the sarcasm or the
satire seriously, the argument will cancel itself out.
I have come to that conclusion as well. To some people whose first
language
is not English it may be hard to discern parody from seriousness and we
are,
as you note, a diverse group.
That said, one of the main beefs against me is the two April Fools
I-Ds I did.
While I admit that there are probably cultures who are present in the
IETF who
do not participate in or "get" the idea of April Fools, it should be
noted that
the main people complaining about them-- and erroneously taking them as
serious proposals-- were not from those communities. So I'm pretty sure that
they intentionally dismissed the obvious parody and sarcasm (pranks, in the
spirit of the day) in order to paint me as a racist and a bad person.
And that
says more about their character than mine.
Maybe we should just do away with the April Fools document tradition as
well. We haven't have a good one since the Evil Bit (the last one on the
"protocol police" was really lame) and it doesn't seem like humor is part
of the IETF anymore. Sigh.
regards,
Dan.
Regards
Brian Carpenter
On 26-Oct-22 20:27, Valery Smyslov wrote:
Hi,
I do not support this PR action.
I read the provided messages and I am not convinced that they justify
the accusation of expressing racism.
And while I admit that many of these messages are harsh and sarcastic
and sometimes are on the verge of acceptable
(definitely this verge is subjective), it seems to me that the
sarcastic form of these messages was used by the author
to make his arguments more expressive. The arguments themselves often
look worth to consider.
"Not only is it extremely cruel to persecute in this brief life those
who do not think the way we do,
but I do not know if it might be too presumptuous to declare their
eternal damnation."
Voltaire, A Treatise on Toleration (1763), translated by Richard Hooker
https://brians.wsu.edu/2016/11/04/voltaire-a-treatise-on-toleration-1763/
(excerpt)
or https://earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/voltaire1763.pdf (full text)
Regards,
Valery Smyslov.
-----Original Message-----
From: last-call [mailto:last-call-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
IETF Chair
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:16 PM
To: last-call@xxxxxxxx
Subject: [Last-Call] Last Call: BCP 83 PR-Action Against Dan Harkins
Following community feedback after various incidents, as documented
below, the
IESG has initiated a posting rights (PR) action that would restrict
the posting
rights of Dan Harkins, as per the procedures found in BCP 83 (RFC
3683).
Specifically, his posting privileges to these lists would be suspended:
* admin-discuss
* gendispatch
* ietf
* terminology
In the IESG's opinion, this individual has a history of sending
emails that are
inconsistent with the IETF Guidelines for Conduct (RFC 7154) and
thereby
"disrupt the consensus-driven process" (RFC 3683). Among these are
contributions
that:
* Express racism in the form of denying, belittling, and ridiculing
anti-racist
sentiment and efforts
* Are rude and abusive, and often amount to insulting ridicule
(Links to examples of such emails sent to the lists above during the
last two
years are provided at the end of this email.)
Multiple attempts have been made to enter into a private discussion
with this
individual, both by IESG and community members, to communicate
disquiet with his
conduct on the lists. These attempts to restore respectful and
courteous conduct
on the lists have been rebuffed with communication that can be
considered both
antagonistic and hostile, and the pattern of behavior observed has
continued.
The IESG also notes that the following actions have already been
taken in
response to the individual's actions:
* Two I-Ds were removed from the public archive due to their
offensive nature:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-les-white-intersectional-dots
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-les-white-tls-preferred-pronouns
(following these links displays the tombstone notice explaining
their removal)
* His posting rights were restricted on the admin-discuss mailing list:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/admin-discuss/ZANH2VPN-U8VMvvOWLb5l03FdCs/
* A final public warning was issued on the gendispatch mailing list:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/68a4amMa1aiaRUPzPGgXdiY9gHg/
None of the attempts to discuss his participation style or warn the
individual
have led to any improvements. The IESG therefore believes that a PR
action is
the correct response to his continued problematic behavior across a
number of
different lists.
The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and
solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
last-call@xxxxxxxx mailing lists by 27 October 2022. Exceptionally,
comments may
be sent to iesg@xxxxxxxx instead. If sending private feedback to the
IESG,
please indicate if you would be open to having your comments
anonymized and
shared in a summary.
Please note: Comments should be limited to the criteria described in
BCP 83,
notably on whether the individual in question has engaged in
postings that are
"unprofessional commentary, regardless of the general subject" in a
manner
disruptive enough to warrant this action.
Lars Eggert
IETF Chair, on behalf of the IESG
–-
Examples of problematic emails during the last two years include:
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/zdq3F0PV40Cyw5ooj0orOWaYyUw/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/i-d7HlWgrkmrVlC7JZQSXDwIJCQ/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/YhPI9zZ_3xfidt5V-ORRnET36yY/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/B33zk8VfOYt4b4Cj-kIHXG3AXdg/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/d3iDS4WNkCJA3aMFnX2HjP4tsps/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/-On8AHrdnnCMlJOOyb1M1nlYMpk/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/n6UMvDuYLKmmvpP1ajICFvf634M/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/QCdjDbokmlARcwVqQ1TV3Rlz7eQ/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/X6OF0MBKAzyLhYaAfAxS6srXRNw/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/idJhG1MsLmKHyRlaAafcW2JF6Z8/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipsec/LoGSVatZ4EsYRq4K52rmvRZTndk/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/pl2lVqhtF4Z-0YuTjhCOmdyi1qE/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/DFgnF_j8py_eMBGI1IUFdMahTKw/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/T3oCpY3BbTNLXWAWsCnFvahRLUQ/
*
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/admin-discuss/xLuz4WTCm5ibIiMVN5ID8OWsCI0/
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