Given how ietf@xxxxxxxx is a large-subscriber-set mailing list with hopefully always new members,
a quick and hopefully useful service notice:
I think i already offered a redirect of the actual subject matter to ISOC's internet-policy mailing list,
but given how the thread since then has been a lot of fun about interesting aspects of the Internet/Arpanets
history and technologies, and not really about the subject:
If you like me enjoy those discussions and insights about Internet history beyond random occurrances
here, the best mailing list for that is probably internet-history@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sorry for the interruption. Please carry on.
Cheers
Toerless
On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 12:56:20PM -0400, Michael StJohns wrote:
> Some details added below.
>
> On 3/15/2022 7:59 AM, vinton cerf wrote:
> > 1. Arpanet was never called "Darpanet"
> ARPA was called DARPA for a short while. There was also DARTNet which was
> a research network based on IP technology, but with a life probably later
> '80s to late 90's. But ARPANET was never DARPANET - never happened.
> ARPANet did split into two IMP based networks - ARPANet and Milnet, and
> Milnet was eventually replaced by the IP router based NIPRNet (New Internet
> PRotocol Network) beginning around '89-90.
> > 2. I don't think we ever "numbered" users since getting on the Arpanet
> > was mostly by having an account on a time-sharing computer at a
> > university (or research lab) that had an ARPA contract.
>
> The only thing I can think of that might have been user serialized were the
> TACACS login credentials issued by the NIC on behalf of both ARPANET and
> MILNET. I believe those were active from the NCP -> TCP/IP transition and
> probably not earlier than '82.
>
> > 3. "bangs" were at email level, not Arpanet (or Internet) level of
> > routing. The "bang" email addresses aided routing through application
> > level gateways.
>
> And for Usenet newsgroups as well, both mostly via UUCP.
>
> > 4. Bob Kahn, Dave Walden, Frank Heart and many others at BBN did the
> > Arpanet IMP design. The Arpanet Host-Host NCP effort was led by Steve
> > Crocker (Jon Postel and I and others helped) and stabilized enough to
> > support email in 1971 and a public demonstration in October 1972. The
> > Internet work started the next year in 1973. Since Internet was
> > conceived as a network of networks, you needed more than one network to
> > make an Internet. There were three to begin with: Arpanet, Packet Radio
> > Net and Packet Satellite Net, all funded by ARPA.
>
> AIRC from slides you presented at the first occurrence of what would become
> the INTEROP conference (specifically as the dinner speaker), both you and Dr
> Dave Clark (MIT) were partially credited with the split of NCP into TCP and
> IP and I would say that particular refactoring was the key idea of the new
> network that allowed it to grow. I seem to remember a picture of a napkin
> with the sketch of the split. That would have been presented ~86 at
> Monterey?
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 4:50 AM David Lloyd-Jones via InternetPolicy
> > <internetpolicy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Willi,
> >
> > You have shown us that you are full of good sentiments. Quite a
> > lot of them. Very good ones. I assume that you know something
> > about the start and development of the Internet but no such
> > knowledge has found its way into your long post.
> > .
> > First proposed by Bacon in the fifteenth century or so, the 'Net
> > was a solid policy proposal made by Vannevar Bush in 1945. It was
> > made possible by the invention of packet-switching in the mid-1960
> > to 70s. Johnny Foster, JFK's science advisor in 1961, was the
> > first person I know of to have done solid financing of the
> > effort. Bush was working on wide-scale computer networking, along
> > with many other things, when I met him in his utterly false
> > "retirement" in Lexington, Mass. in 1976. This was well before
> > your Reagan Administration.
> >
> > The original present "internet" was ARPAnet (on which I was user
> > #300 in 1971). This was financed before it really existed by ARPA
> > when that "Agency" was more-or-less a slush fund passed around at
> > random in the Pentagon. It continued as DARPAnet after they added
> > that "D," for defence, to pretend compliance with the Mansfield
> > Amendment. I worked on this on Congressional staff in 1969-71 and
> > at MIT in '72. The D was tacked on in December '71 or January '72,
> > I forget, but had been in the works ever since Mansfied, as
> > Senator, had tried to prevent military money from corrupting
> > civilian research. Unfortunately, civilian researchers cried
> > piteously that they wanted to be corrupted. By then, Mansfied was
> > ambassador to Japan....
> >
> > When the scalability of the internetted nets, DARPAnet, began to
> > seem limited, -- all those !!! "bangs," -- its growth was smoothed
> > by the development of the present TCP/IP, credited to Bob Kahn and
> > Vint Cerf. When Cerf later went to work for MCI, a hapless little
> > phone company, their PR department tub-thumped that he was
> > "the" founder of "the" Internet. Many people seem to have believed
> > this inanity. More recently this has been toned down to "a"
> > founder of the Internet. In fact packet-switching, the key
> > invention, was largely the work of Lenny Kleinrock, under whom
> > Cerf studied as a university student. Their much later
> > contribution to TCP/IP has certainly been useful.
> >
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 at 13:07, willi uebelherr via InternetPolicy
> > <internetpolicy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why the World Must Resist Calls to Undermine the Internet
> > Andrew Sullivan, 02.03.2022
> > https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/
> >
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > Andrew Sullivan rightly pointed out in his text that "the
> > Internet is
> > for everyone". Absolutely right in the idea.
> >
> > But the reality is different. The technical players acting
> > today are not
> > interested in a free global communication of people, but in a
> > commercialization and capitalization of their needs for
> > communication.
> >
> > This result did not come about by chance, but was already the
> > essential
> > guiding principle at the beginning by the government of the
> > USA under
> > Ronald Reagan. The original concept of "the inter-connection
> > of local
> > Net-works", which is necessarily based on local networks,
> > became a
> > privately and state organized system of interconnected
> > star-systems,
> > "the inter-connection of private Star-Systems".
> >
> > This interconnection of star-systems creates the possibility
> > to organize
> > access and exclusion according to arbitrary criteria. And we
> > see today
> > that the system of a free global communication has turned into
> > a field
> > of censorship and private control mania, organized by
> > countries calling
> > themselves "the West". Already the naming points to organized
> > bullshit,
> > because the planet is a sphere and not a disk and thus any
> > directions
> > can lead to the same goal.
> >
> > The actors of this fragmentation and breaking of a free human
> > communication "without borders" are those who call themselves
> > representatives of a "free world", but in fact trample every
> > diversity
> > with military boots. Every form of racial mania a'la Cecil
> > Rhodes is put
> > back on the table. Lying and hypocrisy is the form of
> > communication that
> > is now elevated to the absolute.
> >
> > The idea of telecommunication in the form of an Internet that
> > does not
> > adhere to private or governmental or geographical boundaries,
> > as we saw
> > with Jonathan Postel, was destroyed at the very beginning of
> > the life of
> > an Internet. Today we see what a monster of small-minded power
> > madness
> > it has developed into, where only private profit interests and
> > state
> > delusions of control apply.
> >
> > The alternative always remains. A telecommunication in the
> > form of an
> > internet, which rests on local networks and thus enables free
> > access to
> > all people of our planet, independent of their social
> > situation and
> > geographical position.
> >
> > That and only that is a "net of nets".
> >
> > with kind regards, willi
> > Asuncion, Paraguay
> >
> >
> >
> > in german
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Liebe freunde,
> >
> > Andrew Sullivan hat zu Recht in seinem Text darauf
> > hingewiesen, "the
> > Internet is for everyone". Absolut richtig in der Idee.
> >
> > Aber die Wirklichkeit sieht anders aus. Die heute agierenden
> > technischen
> > Akteure sind nicht an einer freien globalen Kommunikation der
> > Menschen
> > interessiert, sondern an einer Kommerzialisierung und
> > Kapitalisierung
> > ihrer Beduerfnisse nach Kommunikation.
> >
> > Dieses Resultat ist nicht zufaellig entstanden, sondern war
> > bereits zu
> > Anfang das wesentliche Leitmotiv durch die Regierung der USA
> > unter
> > Ronald Reagan. Das urspruengliche Konzept "the
> > Inter-connection of local
> > Net-works", das ja notwendig auf lokalen Netzwerken ruht,
> > wurde zu einem
> > privat und staatlich organisierten System von verbundenen
> > Sternsystemen,
> > "the inter-connection of private Star-Systems".
> >
> > Diese Verbindung von Stern-Systemen schafft die Moeglichkeit,
> > nach
> > beliebigsten Kriterien den Zugang und Ausschluss zu
> > organisieren. Und
> > wir sehen heute, dass sich das System einer freien globalen
> > Kommunikation zu einem Feld der Zensur und privatem Kontrollwahn
> > entwickelt hat, das von Laendern organisiert wird, die sich
> > "der Westen"
> > nennen. Schon die Namensgebung deutet auf organisierten
> > Schwachsinn,
> > weil der Planet eine Kugel und keine Scheibe ist und damit
> > beliebige
> > Richtungen zum gleichen Ziel fuehren koennen.
> >
> > Die Akteure dieser Zersplitterung und Zerbrechung einer freien
> > menschlichen Kommunikation "ohne Grenzen" sind jene, die sich als
> > Vertreter einer "freien Welt" bezeichnen, tatsaechlich aber jede
> > Diversitaet mit militaerischen Stiefeln zertrampeln. Jede Form
> > des
> > Rassenwahns a'la Cecil Rhodes wird wieder auf den Tisch
> > gestellt. Die
> > Luege und Heuchelei ist diejenige Form der Kommunikation, die
> > nun zum
> > absoluten Mass erhoben wird.
> >
> > Die Idee einer Telekommunikation in Form eines Internet, das
> > sich nicht
> > an private oder staatliche oder geografische Grenzen haelt,
> > wie wir es
> > bei Jonathan Postel sahen, wurde schon zu Beginn der
> > Lebensphase eines
> > Internet zerstoert. Heute sehen wir, zu welchem Monster
> > kleingeistigem
> > Machtwahns es sich entwickelt hat, wo nur noch private
> > Profitinteressen
> > und staatlicher Kontrollwahn gelten.
> >
> > Die Alternative bleibt immer existent. Eine Telekommunikation
> > in Form
> > eines internet, das auf lokalen Netzwerken ruht und so allen
> > Menschen
> > unseres Planeten den freien Zugang ermoeglicht, unabhaengig
> > von ihrer
> > sozialen Lage und geografischen Position.
> >
> > Das und nur das ist ein "Netz der Netze".
> >
> > mit lieben gruessen, willi
> > Asuncion, Paraguay
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To manage your Internet Society subscriptions
> > or unsubscribe, log into the Member Portal at
> > https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> > and go to the Preferences tab within your profile.
> > -
> > View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
> > https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To manage your Internet Society subscriptions
> > or unsubscribe, log into the Member Portal at
> > https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> > and go to the Preferences tab within your profile.
> > -
> > View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
> > https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
> >
--
---
tte@xxxxxxxxx
