Unless the meeting is held under Chatham House rules, it should be as open as the resources allow. Since we are meeting virtually for the foreseeable future a YouTube feed would be relatively simple and allow anyone interested to list first hand to the proceedings. - Stewart > On 27 Aug 2021, at 15:43, Toerless Eckert <tte@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Dear IAB, *: > > I wonder why IAB workshops continue to be closed/invitation only alone, > and would encourage IEF/IAB to rethink this policy in the face of our evolving > technology opportunities and policy challenges. > > I think i understand all the reasons why this makes sense for > active participation and even in-person passive participation (org, cost, focus), > but: > > I would very much like to see a policy where all IETF activities are > as public as possible. In the case of workshops where there is no strong > content benefit of chatham house rules or similar concerns, and where > there is appropriate online tooling anyhow, i think there can and should > always be a live-stream to live listen into (but not participate actively) > such an event. > > If for example webex is used, this is easily possible though webex/youtube > integration, so that passive observers can use youtube to listen live. > > To bring up the dreaded topic again as another example: I do not know > if a closed IAB workshop would be legal place for a US person to provide > technology ideas when there are contributors in such an invittion only > workshop from entities on the US governments EAR entities list. I for once > can not read into EAR 734.7 that such an event is covered by it. > I certainly would love to see a statement of the IETF lawyer about this. > > Cheers > Toerless > > P.S.: This aparticularily is one workshop where i wouldn't have anything > active to contribute, but where i am quite certain that i would learn > a lot more following the discussion in the room listening in remotely than > just reading a workshop report later. So admittedly, this announcement > triggered my mail from self-interest, but i have been disappointed by > this IAB policy for a long time already. > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 10:15:47AM -0700, IAB Executive Administrative Manager wrote: >> Show me the numbers: Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID), 2021 >> >> Web Page: https://www.iab.org/activities/workshops/aid/ >> >> The IETF as an international Standards Developing Organization hosts >> diverse data on the history, development, and current activities in the >> development and standardization of Internet protocols and its >> institutions. A large portion of this data is publicly available, yet >> this data is arguably underutilized as a tool to inform the work in the >> IETF and research on topics like Internet governance and trends in ICT >> standard-setting. >> >> This workshop aims to enable engineers and researchers alike to mine the >> IETF's data sources in order to explore trends through the analysis of >> IETF data, such as email archives >> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/>, I-Ds >> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/ids/>, RFCs >> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/>, and the datatracker >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/>. This work can be used to derive >> insights into the inner workings of the process of standardization, >> participation, and governance[1]. This workshop aims to bring together >> people who have already analyzed IETF data, those who are interested in >> the analysis of IETF data, and those who are interested in the results >> of such analysis as input for improvement of the IETF's work. >> >> We invite the research community, IETF participants, and others with an >> interest in the data collected by the IETF, its protocols, and >> participants, to submit a contribution to the workshop. Furthermore, we >> also welcome participants who are interested in the analysis that could >> be performed based on this data as well as those contributing >> considerations regarding future collection and handling of IETF data. >> >> Possible avenues for explorations include, but are not limited to: >> >> A. What are patterns for participation in the IETF (what are >> predictors for a long and productive tenure, when do people stop >> participating, what is needed to successfully produce RFCs)? >> B. How is the IETF community developing (i.e., affiliations, >> publications, language, nationality, leadership positions)? >> C. How do affiliations develop in the IETF (i.e., does a change in >> affiliation translate into a change in behavior, is there a >> relation between affiliation and leadership positions and/or >> centrality, what is the affiliation distribution per area and/or >> WG)? >> D. What social dynamics (gender, nationality, income, occupation, and >> other social dynamics) are not captured by IETF data and what data >> and research approaches are needed to develop further insights in >> the social dynamics of standardization? >> E. How productive and effective is the IETF, with respect to >> documents, pages, words, letters and in comparison the overall >> activities e.g. on mailing lists? >> F. How well is the outcome of the IETF used, e.g,. based on references >> to RFCs in research papers, product manuals, or other sources? >> G. What data would be relevant to collect that is not collected yet or >> what should be considered with respect to handling of personal data >> during the data collection and research. >> H. How effective is the IETF's consensus-based decision making >> process? Is there evidence that documents receive broad and >> effective reviews? Are experts with relevant expertise engaging >> with developing standards in a timely manner? >> >> Participation and Submission >> >> People interested in participation are requested to submit short >> position papers (500-1000 words). The paper can cover one or multiple of >> the following points, but this list should not be considered exhaustive: >> >> 1. Research questions and interests in IETF data; indication which >> question should be answered, the data needed to do so, and how >> these insights could be used to improve processes and operations; >> 2. Description of the IETF data they aim to analyze or the information >> they would like to see made available to inform their work (such as >> mailing list archives, or participation data obtained through the >> datatracker) and their methods for doing so (see footnote 1); >> 3. Potential and preliminary findings; and how those insights could >> either benefit leadership, WG chairs, and authors/participants, >> and/or society and industry at large; >> 4. Potential or preliminary findings and how those add novel insights >> to ongoing academic debates. >> >> Proposals for data analysis should also contain a brief consideration of >> any related ethics and privacy issues. The basic principles of ethical >> research are outlined in the Belmont Report2 (covering e.g., respect for >> persons, beneficence, and justice) and/or institutional ethics >> guidelines. >> >> The workshop will be invitation-only. The organizers will decide whom to >> invite based on the submissions received. Therefore, please indicate >> your interest by submitting a research proposal by September 29, 2021 to >> aid-workshop-pc@xxxxxxx. >> >> The Program Committee members are Niels ten Oever (chair, University of >> Amsterdam), Colin Perkins (chair, IRTF, University of Glasgow), Corinne >> Cath (chair, Oxford Internet Institute), Mirja Kühlewind (IAB, >> Ericsson), Zhenbin Li (IAB, Huawei), Wes Hardaker (IAB, USC/ISI). >> >> All inputs submitted and considered relevant will be published on the >> workshop web page. Sessions will be organized according to content, and >> not every accepted submission or invited attendee will have an >> opportunity to present as the intent is to foster discussion and not >> simply to have a sequence of presentations. >> >> Position papers from those unable to attend in person are encouraged. A >> workshop report will be published afterwards. >> >> Logistics >> >> • Submissions Due: 29 September 2021 >> • Invitations Issued by: 15 October 2021 >> • Workshop Date: November 29 – December 3 2021 >> • Location: Online and at the University of Amsterdam (COVID-19 >> permitting). >> >> The workshop will consist of three parts: >> >> 1. opening workshop (Monday) >> 2. hackathon (Tuesday – Thursday morning) >> 3. closing event (Thursday afternoon) >> >> Feel free to contact the program committee with any further questions >> (including questions related to available data or expected outcomes): >> aid-workshop-pc@xxxxxxx. >> >> ----- >> [1] Examples of such approaches are: >> https://www.arkko.com/tools/docstats.html, >> http://datactive.github.io/bigbang/, >> https://csperkins.org/research/protocol-standards/2020-12-10-ignacio-iesg-talk/2020-12-10_IESG-50-years-IETF-send.pdf, >> https://sodestream.github.io/impact-of-early-engagement-on-longevity-of-ietf-participation.html >> >> [2] https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/sites/default/files/the-belmont-report-508c_FINAL.pdf >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IETF-Announce mailing list >> IETF-Announce@xxxxxxxx >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss
