Just a pov. I love MBONE. I see no reason not to try and have it. for APNIC member meetings we decided to go with Quicktime RTSP: and SDP: url encoded streams. they worked well. one onsite, one offsite. avoid congestion. they have really bad scaling for hundreds of people. but lets be realistic here, the IETF isn't actually the same as Kylies underwear show: it has a small set of people who could live off refeeds if need be. So, while it has costs, I say: why not do both? also, the rtsp: and sdp: instances would have worked over multicast. MBONE is not an encoding, its a point of view. Quicktime over MBONE is fine for me, and Quicktime alongside MBONE is fine for me too. judging from jabber, we have <20 people who would really have meshed this way if needed. we could have done p2p feeds if needed. labour costs, effort. but technology wise, it works. -George