> I'm all for eating our own dog food, but IMO workable remote > access is more > important. The point about eating the dog food is so that you improve it to the point where it is acceptable. I think it is time to accept that the MBONE technology is fatally flawed and is not going to be deployable. Equally flawed and useless are the H.323 protocols that do not tunnel through NAT or even work with a firewall in a remotely acceptable fashion. This thing is not rocket science. There are lots of folk with the little cameras and the ISPs do not want to have their bandwidth wasted needlessly. But trying to do multicast in the network layer has failed. The Internet considers complexity in the network to be stupidity and does not route it. Phill