Re: Kudos to MeetEcho

[Jay Daley <jay@xxxxxxxx>]

On 29/07/2020, at 4:25 PM, Bron Gondwana <brong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, at 14:08, Jay Daley wrote:

The final complicating factor is of course the complexity of IETF requirements - for example we require a system that dynamically recognises multiple roles via OIDC and grants permissions accordingly. 

I am not sure where this requirement is derived from.  I have been to physical meetings in which there is no security guard standing in the room enforcing sitting requirements, and yet somehow the chairs of each session find themselves sitting at the desk out the front where the controls for the meeting are.

Given that you need a valid datatracker login, a "don't do that again" for the first misbehaviour and a denial of access for repeat offense would be enough.

I too prefer permissive systems but who would manage the denial of access, if anyone can choose to sit in the chair seat?

I'd be in favour of having a mode switch from "regular participant" to "admin mode" that mirrors the process of deliberately sitting in the chair seats rather than the participant seats

I’m not sure if you’ve spotted the irony here - you’re suggesting a feature here that, as far as I know, is not provided by any off-the-shelf conferencing system and would need to be developed specifically for the IETF. 

- just so people don't make accidental UI mistakes with those admin controls. - but beyond that it appears that the dynamic role permissions system is a level of top-down control that we don't normally impose on our physical sessions.

Physical sessions have microphones on stands, people queuing at them, chairs calling on the next person to speak (use the microphone), certain people able to cut in, big red buttons and so on.  As I understand it, these features of an in-person meeting have built up over time to manage multiple speakers as fairly and productively as possible. There’s no evidence to suggest that doing away with that would improve those goals but I do agree that there are different ways of implementing those in an online system and the best way may still be waiting to be found. 

If we are to accept Richard’s assertion that we should be using off-the-shelf systems with >1m DAU then that would by necessity mean accepting their interaction model rather than our own and adapting our practices to fit. As far as I can tell, and I would be very happy to be corrected, that would be a significant cultural change even the principle was ring-fenced to a small set of systems not all systems. 

Jay

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Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director

Cheers,

Bron.

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  Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd

  brong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx