On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Tony Hain wrote: > Randy Bush wrote: > > this assertion is false, or disingenuous at best. > > backbone service providers are turning it on at great > > pain, much of that pain due to lack of support from > > large router vendors. > > A few are working on lab efforts, and a very small number are offering > service. Even if the transit ISP's had full up support today, that doesn't > get the job done. The real issue is to convince the smaller ISP's that offer > service directly to the end user. > funny, i'm building a wireless version of that now, and ARIN seems to want $2500 from me for an allocation. > > > you have been operating on that theory for many years and it has not > worked. > > If one goes back to the origin of ngtrans, I was the one pushing hard to > make sure that dual stack was the priority, and that all of that was > specified before any solutions for corner cases. Even with dual stack as the > primary approach, many network managers are expressing reluctance because > they don't want to overlook the corner case that is important in their > network. Independent of that, app developers see no value in building code > for a network that they can't rely on working. It has only been recent work > with 6to4 & teredo creating the perception of an end-to-end (in this case it > only works at the end points) IPv6 network that has allowed apps to move > beyond what they can do with IPv4. > > > > > Bottom line, the end user doesn't know or care about IP or any version > > > issues. They type names, or click on links, and magic happens. > > > > yep. as i said <http://www.ietf.org/> usually works pretty well. > > So why shouldn't port 25 work? > > > > It is our job to make that magic happen in more places, and as > > > transparently as possible. > > > > no. it is the vendors' and operators' jobs. > > Ok, it is our job to create the consistency so that vendors can create > products for operators to deploy and deliver services. In any case, just > having a deployment in a few backbone routers doesn't get the job done. > > Tony > > > > > sleekfreak pirate broadcast world tour 2002-3 live from the pirate hideout http://sleekfreak.ath.cx:81/