Paul, PHI> All my discussions were not for attribution. Large mail carriers PHI> don't want their competitors to know how many users they actually PHI> have (as compared to the highly inflated numbers that various PHI> analysts say they have), and they certainly don't want their PHI> competitors knowing how much they are spending on dealing with spam. Perhaps you could synthesize the numbers in a way that the carriers will agree to? That it, sanitize out the competitive information, to produce something relevant only to spam control in the aggregate. For example, if you offer a numeric range for cost per use, this says nothing about how large anyone's installed base in, and they only need to agree to you that their number is within the range. d/ -- Dave Crocker <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>, <fax:+1.866.358.5301>