I agree - much better if you don't have NAT. I'm not qualified to discuss the best way to accelerate the advantages that the Internet brings to everyone's lives while simultaneously encouraging people to move to IPv6. But if the powers-that-be wish there to be a VoIP solution that supports people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves behind NAT (ie: at hotels, etc.), then we're happy to provide the solution. If not, then at least we might all benefit from the resulting debate. Dan Dan Freedman, CEO, Jasomi Networks, Inc. 2033 Gateway Place, Suite 500, San Jose, CA, 95110 Phone +1.403.680.2351 Fax +1.403.269.2993 Email dfreedman@jasomi.com Web www.jasomi.com -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fleming [mailto:JimFleming@ameritech.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:16 PM To: dan@fsa.ca; ietf@ietf.org NAT traversal....???? http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/select/1098/int.html NATs are a no-no HEATH: I was going to say that IEEE Spectrum should make it very clear that this group's consensus would appear to be: let's discourage NATs--I mean the manufacture of them at all--because there is a real need for IPv6. HUITEMA: It's more than that. There is a real need for security and you can't have security with NATs. CERF: NAT is a guaranteed spoofing box in effect. ============================================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Freedman" <dan@fsa.ca> To: <ietf@ietf.org> Cc: <sip@ietf.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: RE: [Sip] Eating our own Dog Food...could the IAB and IESG use SIP for conference calls Agreed. To enable access from behind firewalls (ie: homes, hotels, conferences, airports, Asia, ...), we can donate a B2BUA-based NAT traversal solution for SIP (same one that Pulver's Free World Dialup uses). It sits near the proxy, with nothing needed on the client end. Bottom line: In addition to helping the IESG and IAB, it will help SIP to have more IETF participants gaining experience with it. -Dan Dan Freedman, CEO, Jasomi Networks, Inc. 2033 Gateway Place, Suite 500, San Jose, CA, 95110 Phone +1.403.680.2351 Fax +1.403.269.2993 Email dan@jasomi.com SIP dan@jasomi.com Web www.jasomi.com -----Original Message----- From: sip-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sip-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jiri Kuthan Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:01 AM To: Henry Sinnreich; 'Richard Shockey'; ietf@ietf.org Cc: sip@ietf.org; Scott Petrack; Christian Stredicke That's great idea. We can help with our free SIP server (www.iptel.org/ser/) and hosting the services. -Jiri At 03:46 PM 3/25/2003, Henry Sinnreich wrote: >There are excellent SIP voice conferencing bridges available, such as >from snom AG and eDial. They can be used with various soft clients such >as the Windows Messenger, HotSIP Active Contacts or the Pingtel instant >expressa, or any SIP phone. > >I have taken the liberty of copying here the contacts for snom AG and >eDial, in case this will be pursued. I wonder if snom AG or eDial would >just give the IESG and IAB access to their conference servers? > >Would there be interest to have access to a WorldCom SIP conference >bridge? > >Thanks, Henry > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sip-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sip-admin@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Richard Shockey >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 6:04 PM >> To: ietf@ietf.org >> Cc: sip@ietf.org >> Subject: [Sip] Eating our own Dog Food...could the IAB and >> IESG use SIP for conference calls >> >> >> >> Like many of us I was moved my Harald's appeal for >> suggestions for helping >> to cut down costs in the IETF. >> >> I certainly endorse the idea of considering Canada or Mexico >> as possible >> sites for future IETF meetings, but I suspect that the weekly >> teleconferece >> calls that the IAB and IESG have represent a significant line >> item for the >> Secretariat. >> >> In case anyone has not heard, SIP is quite capable of >> handling this type of >> task and there are a variety of commercial as well as open >> source Client >> User Agents as well as commercial products and services that >> could help >> reduce this cost. >> >> I'm sure the SIP working group could help the Secretariat >> identify products >> and services that could make this essential function more >> productive and >> operate at less cost. >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Richard Shockey, Senior Manager, Strategic Technology >> Initiatives NeuStar Inc. >> 46000 Center Oak Plaza - Sterling, VA 20166 >> Voice +1 571.434.5651 Cell : +1 314.503.0640, Fax: +1 >> 815.333.1237 > <mailto:richard@shockey.us> or >> ><mailto:richard.shockey@neustar.biz> > <http://www.neustar.biz> ; <http://www.enum.org> ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > >_______________________________________________ >Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use >sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip > >_______________________________________________ >Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip _______________________________________________ Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip