Well I've read RFC 871 like some have wanted me too. I haven't seen what I'm supposed to see, can someone explain to me what is it's purpose in the TCP/IP discussion? I've noticed they've confused axioms which are taken to be true as a ground work for something with Euclidean postulates, which are truths to be self evident. No Euclidean postulate has ever been proven by another. Geometrically or otherwise. I've been focusing on RFC's 793,1122,1123 and looking at 1661 and 3340. Slight changing in terminology meaning. - To those who care...