Hi, My thinking and the thinking of the named persons are sort of mixed together as follows. If you worry about who thought what, please see the previous half dozen posts. Subject is carrying Gaming console data inside SIP sessions. "John Stracke" <jstracke@INCENTIVESYSTEMS.COM> Tunnelling may work but its not ideal compared to a knowledegable App. Security is a specific problem. "Christian Huitema" <huitema@windows.microsoft.com> Some sort of concurentcy problem may be caused by Ethernet tunneling, and it may load servers. Since SIP is peer to peer, unless the players are behind a firewall/Media port of some sort, I don't see what server is loaded. I might be missing something. "Sending game messages like IM messages" is pretty well exactly what I want. The SIP processes themselves are (hopefully) fast enough to handle real time video, so if there a bottleneck for the game, there not coded well. Christian says: "The architecturally correct way to use SIP for games is to use a SIP exchange to initiate a game session, i.e. INVITE "sip:alice@example.com" to join a game. The payload of the SIP messages (INVITE and response) will carry the IP address and port numbers used by the game application." I fear I don't know enough about how the INVITE would be able to envolk the game process. If the game can 'register' or whatever to the SIP process and be envolked this might be close to ideal. Since a major goal is to have other multimedia components running simultainiously not known to the game application, there are other problems. If it was a X-windows type thing, it would be easy. But games seem to be mostly sort of hard coded for I/O so even if the SIP syntax and theory of it works if the apps can't get at the resources, the thing still fails to do what I hope it to do. "John Stracke" <jstracke@incentivesystems.com> Mostly a few comments on Christian Huitema's post. Also sees the simularity to Instant Messages as a a situation, not specifically a problem. "Henry Sinnreich" <Henry.Sinnreich@wcom.com> Henry said: The IM Session Mode allows the transfer of big/rich media directly between the endpoints, once SIP has set up the session." I get that; sort of. It seems like its hard to discriminate between the behavior of the protocol when it needs a thing from the operating system. Stuff like browsers seem to have some step like "registering" a .DLL or what have you to make the linkages explicit and long lasting; (beyond one power up). Even this is vaguer in a gaming console. It has some non-volitile memory, but its often removable, so it is unpleasant to have each game have a behavior that depends on how its envolked. Its a hard problem. Obviously a precise relationship on the game side would be ideal, but what is this protocol; "most like". I sort of visualize a TCP Telnet like session? Well, I don't know. I really appreciate the thinking of everyone on this. Thank you and if you have opinions please continue to post them. I think its an ok topic for this forumn. Just general enough? Hope I'm right on this. Regards, Dan Kolis Dan Kolis - Lindsay Electronics Ltd dank@hq.lindsayelec.com 50 Mary Street West, Lindsay Ontario Canada K9V 2S7 (705) 324-2196 X 268 (705) 324-5474 Fax An ISO 9001 Company; SCTE Member ISM-127194 /Document end