>> of course. but making milestones, especially in a culture reknown >> for poor estimation, seems to be a rather minor aspect of producing >> quality. and i believe the latter to be far more important, and to >> be more difficult to judge, motivate, guide, ... > high quality that misses its market window is very low quality. shame you missed my words. i did not say time was inconsequential. i said it was part of quality, but not the most important nor the hardest to produce in our culture. the operational part, not the hot air part, of our technology is becoming reknown for time-to-market crap that is falling over in production and having massive security problems. most parts of quality are far harder to measure, to motivate, and to manage than the milestones. and talk is cheap. randy