> From: Pete Resnick <presnick@QUALCOMM.COM> > >this was meant as a way for the ITU-T management to say, in effect > >"he knows what is going on" - this was not intended to mean that any > >such designated person carries any more weight in IETF WG > >deliberations than does any other individual... > > I (and I believe Keith) think it is that latter point that needs to > be explicitly stated in the BCP: Bringing official knowledge to the > IETF is useful and important, but that does not give the delegate and > special weight or privilege in the working group deliberations. Exactly. Without explicit words limiting the power and authority of such official representatives, you will have third parties thundering in working groups that because the ITU representatives are officially sanctioned by IETF rules, what they say is more important than what anyone else says. You will also have WG chairs cutting off debate because ITU representatives have Spoken. In other, better run WGs, you will have endless arguments that because the IETF is now participating in the ITU (as demonstrated by the existence of the official representatives) and because there are no IETF words limiting the authority of the official representatives, whatever the representatives say must matter. There will be similar endless flamewars after Last Calls in the main IETF list. Never mind that it seems to me that the whole idea is based on the crazy notion that because an ITU representative is official, what the representative says will be complete and accurate. People who are careful to be complete and accurate are complete and accurate, while others, whether officially designated or not, aren't. The whole idea seems based on a naive view of standards committee politics. I'm thinking in particular of an infamous case several years ago where an official representative of one IEEE 802 group represented the results of the group's deliberation to the upper layer opposite to the clear voting majority of the group, but consistent with the position of the representative's employeer. Vernon Schryver vjs@rhyolite.com