On 11:05 Wed 08 Dec , Mark Wielaard wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 23:53 +0000, Dr Andrew John Hughes wrote: > > I'll apologise in advance if some of what I've written below sounds harsh, > > but I'm not that happy with the state of Free Java generally right now. > > And I apologize for not stating the obvious. You are the only active > maintainer of GNU Classpath at the moment. It is unfair we aren't > helping you out more. Especially because there are new hackers wanting > to see their contributions integrated. Just like Mario I do feel > somewhat guilty for not making the time necessary. GNU Classpath is the > project that shaped me and that created a community of friends. > > Please don't feel discouraged by some of the details Pekka is wrong > about. It is the fact that he is so positive and forward looking that > made me agree so much with what he said. We need a wakeup call. People > like what GNU Classpath stands for. It is an important project to move > forward. It is needed to bootstrap the free java world. People want to > contribute. > > Lets see what we can/should do to help you more. I understand some of > your hesitation because we let you down. You are currently the > maintainer that carries the whole load. > Thanks. > > There is no 1.7 API to implement yet, so that's a pointless statement. > > 1.7 will be what OpenJDK implements. We can run japi against it to get > comparisons. > We already do: http://builder.classpath.org/japi/openjdk7-classpath.html though as I said in my reply to Pekka, I don't know how up-to-date the OpenJDK snapshot is. Now you have a better builder, maybe it could be done from the test builds instead. > > I also tend to still believe in the general Classpath spirit that we > > implement primarily to match the requirements of applications, not > > specific applications. > > Yes, I do agree with that. But one of the applications is making sure > IcedTea can be bootstrapped. That will require more 1.6 and eventually > 1.7 work. > http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=39410 Feel free to get hacking. Every time I update IcedTea7, I usually find some new bug to workaround. > > We have no hope of ever TCKing the thing > > anyway, and to my knowledge it's never been used with a JDK that's not > > Oracle-based so I have no trust in its reliability. > > Cacao got access to the TCK. > http://openjdk.java.net/groups/conformance/JckAccess/jck-access.html > I agree the terms of the TCK are erroneous though. I wouldn't be happy > to have to accept them. It makes open collaboration impossible. But if > someone is really motivated to they could do like cacao did, mix and > match GNU Classpath with Hotspot and make that work. > Maybe 'ever' was a bit far, but I don't think it's the be-all-and-end-all by any means. And yes GNU Classpath + HotSpot may be possible; depends on how the decision making has changed with the transition from Sun to Oracle. The CACAO license, AFAIK, was for CACAO+OpenJDK, not CACAO+GNU Classpath. The latter seems to be forbidden by the license terms (unless you could count JAXWS as a substantial part of OpenJDK?) > > > As soon as I am back I would like us to at least start moving to > > > mercurial on savannah if people don't mind. > > > > Yes, I do mind. > > > > We already discussed this some time back: > > > > http://developer.classpath.org/pipermail/classpath/2008-June/002629.html > > > > and nothing happened. I don't particularly see any huge benefit to > > moving the repository to a different version control system. > > That surprises me. CVS really, really is a pain. I will be offline for > two weeks, having a modern dvcs would be so nice. > This entire discussion mimics the previous one fairly well, with many people outlining benefits and others not seeing the point. I do see _a_ benefit. I just don't think it's the most important thing when there are patches to be reviewed and low output. The biggest problem with CVS is the inability to work remotely, which, while nice, is hardly the biggest reason to change the version control system, when there are other more important things to do that would have a bigger impact IMHO. > > As is, if you're going to put some time in, I'd rather it was spent > > reviewing patches than messing about with the VCS. > > Point taken. In my defense, I like tinkering with "services" around the > code base. Having autobuilders, a good dvcs integrated with a bug > database, etc. help me get motivated that the code base is useful and in > a good shape. > Well if you really want to spend the time doing it, feel free from my point of view. Just make sure all that history is preserved. > Thanks, > > Mark > > Thanks, -- Andrew :) Free Java Software Engineer Red Hat, Inc. (http://www.redhat.com) Support Free Java! 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