Jeff King wrote: >> > Definitely, yes. Even if you look at the impact on code alone and >> > don't care about the people, destroying a collegial work environment >> > is harmful enough to the code to outweigh the (admittedly often >> > useful) patches. >> >> A collegial work environment is overrated, and proof of that the Linux >> kernel, where honest and straight talk is the bread and butter of the >> mailing list. And the Linux kernel is the most successful software >> project in history by far. It's code that speaks. > > I have consistently found your demeanor on the list to be very > unfriendly and difficult to work with. It is one thing to have honest > and straight talk, and another thing to be obstinate, unmindful of > feedback (both with respect to technical details, as well as to > communication styles), and disrespectful of other people. While I agree that being rude and obstinate is definitely undesirable, and that a healthy on-list environment is important, I have something to add: Being super-tactful comes at a cost. Regulars on the mailing list have to spend 3~4x the amount of time to compose an email (reading and re-reading their drafts to see how to express them in a more friendly way); this leads to a lot of inefficiency and creates a suffocating environment in which people don't have freedom of expression. I would much rather prefer straight talk where nobody reads into what is written and takes offense. In this case, jrn took offense and talked about how he would ban fc from the list if he were managing it: while I'm not defending fc's tone, I'm not defending jrn's comment either. jrn has been around since mid-2008, and fc has been around since early-2009. It's mid-2013, and they still haven't learnt to work with each other. Disagreement is healthy, and is the foundation of progress. When it comes to sensitive issues, stern disagreement is often mis-interpreted as disrespect (or worse). If we keep beating up disagreements on the basis of tone and demeanor, git.git would go nowhere. Sure, it would be more ideal if fc's tone were friendlier [*1*], but it isn't: let's deal with the issue instead of constantly whining about it. [Footnotes] *1* Oh, and mine too. I've been told several times off-list that my tone is unfriendly. I'm working on fixing the issue, but I don't enjoy the constant suffocation: I should be able to say what I want without too much effort. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html