On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, peter sikking <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > And yet the desktop menu in Mint/Cinnamon does precisely this and it > > *is* fast. [...] > > let me give an example of what I mean in a GIMP context (because > that is the only thing that counts). > > if a particular user uses Layer->New from Visible regularly, > then invoking it with a mouse from the menu will be nigh impossible > to beat with TITo, even if TITo manages to have a unique 2 char > code for it in the given localisation (fat chance). the time loss is > already there before the / shortcut is hit because it takes mental time > and effort for users to get to the point of hitting that key > (and you and I and all other users do not record that time loss, > because we are so busy figuring out the shortcut; this means none > of us is a reliable witness where it comes to how fast this stuff is) That would certainly be faster when using a direct shortcut or a button. Oh, if there *was* a direct shortcut or button (hint, hint, oh UI architect ;). A counter-example: I need the 'Newsprint' filter every 2 months or so, but for some reason can't seem to remember which filter menu it's under. Why is it such a disaster to expose that filter to a search? A follow-up question: (without looking - no cheating) which menu/sub-menu would *you* look under to find 'Newsprint'? Find that answer intuitive? How about 'wavelet decompose'? And how about a myriad of other third-party plug-ins? I _must_ know: what unit(s) do you use to describe 'mental time'? Are they accurate? Precise? Both? Do tell. Call it "burning curiosity" on my part. do I see adding a text-driven action/menu system as any sort of UI > > failure. or being in the least bit "misguided". What's inherently > > evil about adding shortcuts to get things done? > > now that you ask: I would be misguiding one million users by saying > on the record: here is a way to use GIMP, for intense use. How many millions use Windows? The start menu in Win7 is remarkably similar to the behavior of Mint15+Cinnamon (I won't speak to who's copying whom). (in case it's not easily detected, the use of "million" here and again is an *ancient* fallacy, and sarcasm is notably hard to detect via email ;) In OS9 I could open Illustrator or PS, and punch in commands so fast they would never hit the screen, walk away and the work was done before I came back. Yes, I doubt GIMP+TITo can match that, but it seems to be a start. With time+effort and an input buffer(!) it could be more than "intense" if not "amazing/brilliant/awesome" (thanks to Sriraman and Jehan so far!). > > And if some labels aren't clear in TITo, might they need to be looked > > at anyway - maybe they really are ambiguous or could be worded better? > > The couple mentioned in the BZ report seemed a little funky. > > > I am happy to change a menu label for any good reason > (that is helping users), but never to help TITo out > (which is helping a mechanical robot). Robot? Please clarify the difference between GIMP and other "robots". Is GIMP *not* an artificial construct between me and an image? ie if you label TITo a "robot" then that term then applies to GIMP. You seem to be wading/wallowing into philosophy (as opposed to UI) at this point, but might (though I doubt it) forgive my earlier (impertinent) questions ;) To quote your message: ...‘that is OKish, give these guys a break’ ...‘that is awful, completely misguided’ [repeats] Interpreted, to the best of my understanding: <arrogance> ... "I'm a UI god and as long as it does't threaten my credibility it's OK" ... "gods forfend *anyone* make something work better when *I* haven't thought of it yet" [repeats] </arrogance> My interpretation is (deliberately) awful - and I ***hope*** it is incorrect. Unless I'm missing something your arguments against TITo are _purely_ philosophical and (at least by me) poorly understood. Give me (objectively) *measurable* objections and I'll (probably) shut the hell up ;). Chris PS - Peter: would it kill you to start a sentence with a capitalized letter, or is that some "UI secret" you've left us all out on? Is there some measurable advantage you attain by not capping your sentences? <sarcasm>Makes your input more user-friendly, perhaps - or maybe you are a disciple of Larry Wall?</sarcasm> _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address: gimp-developer-list@xxxxxxxxx List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
