Hi all, Yes, a long one once again. You may be accustomed by now. But I hate being shallow-minded. As the subject changed, I think it is interresting to reflect the change in the mails subject, but this is a follow up of the "Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere" thread. Sven Neumann wrote : > This whole discussion is so pointless. Partly, yes, but I hate leaving so big mistakes uncorrected. This is one of my flaws. But I'll try to put an end to the pointless parts. > You are making a comparison to the Linux kernel that is completely inadequate Point of view. The whole point was about stable interfaces, and saying to the users to "move back to the previous version if they did not like the changes (what if kernel developers started to say you that ?)", but no more arguing about this, it seems everybody missed the point. > and at the same time you did not give a single concrete example of a change > that you disliked. Or even bothered to explain what you dislike about it. Some, but lost in all the other stuff or on other media (IRC) which is a mistake I made, I agree, so I'll try to be more constructive. > It appears that your only problem is that things are changing. Sorry, but you > will have to get along with that. We are not going to stop ourselves from > changing the GIMP user interface to the better. Changing to the better is good, but the better should not be the point of view of a few, neither intended to "copy the behavior of commercial programs to gain new users" (this is the feeling I had from lots of remarks here and on IRC) , and much less again, simplifying the interface and removing customizability because of a said difficulty to maintain or code the whole stuff (which, I say it once more, is insulting Gimp developers.) > Sorry, but the GIMP user interface sucks and that urgently needs to > change. Has there been a survey about this ? > We have plans to improve it and we are not going to make every > change optional just to please some users that are not willing to follow > us on the user interface changes. Not optional, but customizable. This is the key of free softwares (from my point of view at least) And do not tell me (or others) it is not good because other programs have too much customization possibilities. > And we are going to make some much more drastic changes in the future. Please remember that user are working with The Gimp. Changing the user interface drastically because you do not feel like keeping the old one will discourage them, and they'll move to commercial softwares. This is too bad. But I already said this. So, one point I already brought to the discussion, here and on IRC: the possibility for the user to customize the interface, or in other words, "Not ONE interface for everybody". When I said this on IRC (that the interface should be customizable, as it is for so many free softwares, mind, window managers for example) I was told that this is an ineptitude, because the most used user interface (M$ OS's one) is not configurable. So nice to read as an argument. Then, another point: using configurations, as it is done for window managers, which users can share. I think this would be a good improvement. Thus, you can make things move as much as you want, as long as the user can come back to a configuration he nows and can use. Now, the points I criticized about the changes I noticed, and possible solutions: * The main menu (files, image, layer, ...) is no more in the toolbox (at the top). I do not understand, as there is still the place reserved, (so this is screen place lost) and it is in every image window. Then, when I want to open a new window, or acquire a screenshot, or scan... I have to use the menu of a current image ! This is silly ! One suggestion (not from me but which pleases me): have the main menu dockable, as are the tools menus. * About the lasso tool : Previously, after going through most of the selection you needed, you were able to release the mouse, and the selection was closing itself. now you go to another mode of selection (polygon) !!!!! Silly again ! If there is a need for a polygon selection tool (And this is a good thing, you are right), then create one ! But please do not remove interesting features ! And now you cannot click once in the image to clear the selection with this tool, as it will start drawing a new polygon. Ok, you can do it by pressing Ctrl+Shift+A, but this was nice, you you are merging a new tool in an existing one. Create the new one please. * acquisition menu moved (and renamed in the french version at least) OK, this is just convenient, and this is the kind of changes one can get used to. but this is bad when one needs to learn once again how to use something that was just there. especially when using scanners is so touchy, and you wonder whether it is a problem with your scanner or a said improvement. Of course I have no solution to prevent this but saying "don't do it". Once again, for your own convenience you are having so many people loosing so much time. And then, on the same point, you create a new menu entry called "create" but the "New image" is still outside of it ! This can be between 2 minor versions, but when you say you are redesigning the user interface, don't do it across major releases. Thanks for reading down to here. And once again, have fun and enjoy using free software, this is the most important. And please remember the 2006 GimpCon (quotes from the website : http://developer.gimp.org/gimpcon/2006/index.html) Targeted user base GIMP targets experienced users. If we acknowledge that GIMP is not (primarily) for beginners [...] What GIMP is: * GIMP is Free Software * GIMP is a high-end photo manipulation application, and supports creating original art from images; * GIMP is a high-end application for producing icons, graphical elements of web pages, and art for user interface elements; * GIMP is a platform for programming cutting edge image processing algorithms, by scientists and artists; * GIMP is user-configurable to automate repetitive tasks; * GIMP is easily user-extendable, by easy installation of plug-ins. What GIMP is not: * GIMP is not MS Paint or Adobe Photoshop _______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
