On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:58 AM, <gimp-developer-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
(Hollywoodkiller Movies)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:57:59 +0800
From: Hollywoodkiller Movies <hollywoodkillermovies@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
To: gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<43e4d8fe0903261357qf24c151m7d4763a7df4aac39@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:40 AM, <
gimp-developer-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to
> gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> gimp-developer-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> gimp-developer-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere
> (Alexandre Prokoudine)
> 2. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
> 3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
> 4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Graeme Gill)
> 5. a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux)
> 6. a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:16:04 +0300
> From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable
> Everywhere
> To: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID:
> <733f2c730903251516l180719d6pdb254a6c548d5e2b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:52 AM, drizzt wrote:
>
> >> A tool should work out of box and help getting the work done right away.
> > But if each time you take your tool out of the box, it's behavior has
> > changed, you cannot use it. So maybe you are creating a thing new users
> can
> > play with, but please keep in mind that there are people currently using
> the
> > tool !!!
>
> I feel justified to reply only to this one, but it basically covers
> all of your email. You seem to be separating users into two groups: 1)
> those who like GIMP the way it is now and do not want any other UI and
> 2) new users who don't care what the previous UI looked like. And you
> seem to be in the first group. Too bad, because this distinction is
> incorrect. There's plenty of actual GIMP users who desperately want a
> better UI , a lot of users who kind of don't mind a new UI and a whole
> lot of users who don't know yet how much they will love a new UI.
>
> Now regarding old tool/new tool. Do you know what is one of most
> disgusting things in applications like ACD Canvas that are over 20
> years old? It's the ugly way their developers never ever refine them.
> Just like you say they keep all the old tools, all the old behaviours,
> everything they don't feel comfortable to throw away. And it piles up.
> How about "A" hotkey that is in use by three (sic!) different tools
> depending on tool group? How about 3-level nested toolbox? How about
> separate erasers for bitmap and vector objects? These applications
> become a horror to use for both old-timers and novices.
>
> Now please give this a lot of thought before replying.
>
> P.S. Shouting is of no help in this list.
>
> Alexandre
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
> To: peter sikking <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> scribus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.1.00.0903251807280.31469@localhost>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, peter sikking wrote:
>
> > Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> >
> >> There was a somewhat heated discussion of this thread at
> >> linuxgraphics.ru forum and here are several examples from people who
> >> deal with prepress work on daily basis:
> >>
> >> 1. Client brings an image for poster in CMYK which needs color
> >> correction. Urgent work, not time to ask him to redo it. Double color
> >> space conversion is out of question. So he had to use Photoshop from
> >> VMWare.
> >>
> >> 2. You have a newspaper where first page should have a two-color
> >> photo: black (C=0%M=0%Y=0%K<=100%) and blue (C<=100%M=0%Y=0%K=0%).
> >> separate+ however separates black to 4 channels.
> >>
> >> 3. Some print houses set limit to overall sum of colors, for example
> >> 180%. So if you take Cyan 100% + Magenta 100% (already 200%) + a
> >> little of K and Y this will result in unnatural colors in a newspaper.
> >>
> >> 4. Live density control for each CMYK channel is a must (Scribus/SVN
> >> has that in preview dialog).
> >>
> >> To me it's somewhat strange that GIMP's product vision doesn't mention
> >> prepress needs explicitly.
> >
> > A vision is an _expression_ of the project of what they want
> > the software to be.
> >
> > There is choice in there, and the user community cannot demand
> > that GIMP does certain things. For instance making web mockups
> > (including the required html + css generation) is explicitly not
> > supported.
> >
> > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say
> > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch
> > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything
> > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or
> > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this.
>
> Scribus is vector-based, not raster based.
>
> I do not believe that Scribus has any intent to be allow
> raster-based editing, but I could be wrong.
>
> I have CC'd the Scribus list. Let us hear their opinions. Does
> Scribus intend to allow people to tackle the problems listed
> above?
>
> Or would you be able to trap the following image with Scribus?
>
> <http://www.ets.ru/images/pk000075.jpg>
>
> > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for
> > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via
> > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing
> > presses that have operators. From the description above you can
> > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you
> > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut
> > the lp (in cmyk).
>
> As someone who works in prepress, I can tell you that when we
> take it from original artwork to press, we have to run any raster
> artwork through Photoshop or a competing product.
>
> --
> | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, |
> | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
> | <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
> --
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
> To: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@xxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.1.00.0903251800290.31469@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Andrew A. Gill wrote:
> >
> >> Agreed. ?I don't think anyone here is looking for a Photoshop clone (I
> know
> >> that I personally hate PS for a variety of reasons), but we do realize
> that
> >> it has to compete with Photoshop, and not addressing the issues of large
> >> sections of the design market when your competitor does is probably not
> the
> >> best move.
> >
> > Do we realize that? :)
> >
> > It is true that GIMP is usually seen as to-be-photoshop-substitution
> > and its maturity in various areas in fact is the reason why people
> > switch to GIMP. However GIMP doesn't seem to be driven by a will to
> > make Photoshop die, die, die :)
>
> <http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/competitor.html>
>
> It's a product that has similar features. It's a competing
> product.
>
> (Personally, I want to make Photoshop die, die, die, but that's
> mainly because of a deep loathing for the UI.)
>
> --
> | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, |
> | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
> | <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
> --
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:19:12 +1100
> From: Graeme Gill <graeme2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
> To: gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <49CABBF0.9000609@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> peter sikking wrote:
>
> > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say
> > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch
> > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything
> > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or
> > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this.
>
> As I understand it, Scribus is not a pixel editor, it is
> a page layout package, rather a different thing altogether.
>
> So you're saying that Scribus should add a pixel editing
> package to their application, so that they can support CMYK
> and other non-RGB color spaces, duplicating an awful lot
> of what's in GIMP ?
>
> > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for
> > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via
> > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing
> > presses that have operators. From the description above you can
> > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you
> > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut
> > the lp (in cmyk).
>
> I really don't think people working in the graphic
> arts are going to want to master two different pixel editing
> packages, simply because one of them doesn't support anything
> other than RGB. If they're in the Linux sphere, then I guess
> they need to go and look at using Krita instead.
>
> [ ie. handling CMYK and other colorspaces is a superset
> capability, with RGB being a subset, and the colorspace is orthogonal
> to the pixel manipulation capabilities ]
>
> Graeme Gill.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:32:24 -0400
> From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobidoux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: a good student UI project...
> To: peter sikking <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <18890.48904.286747.696030@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Peter:
>
> Here is a suggestion UI project for training purpose:
>
> Right now, in GEGL, you have access to the whole 2-parameter family of
> cubic splines for resampling, as well as bilinear.
>
> Pick three representatives, say Catmull-Rom ("lots" of halo),
> smoothing B-Splines ("lots" of blur) and bilinear ("lots" of jaggies).
>
> (Instead of bilinear you could use nohalo a.k.a. gegl-sampler-sharp.c.)
>
> If you want to stick to what's already in the Gimp you could use
> lanczos, cubic and bilinear.
>
> Now: Any location within a triangle defines barycentric coordinates,
> which in term define a "blending" of the three methods.
>
> Construct an interface which mimicks
>
>
> http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-photo-enlargement.htm
>
> except that instead of using it as a descriptive tool, we use it as a
> way of "picking your blend of poison."
>
> Now, I don't know how attractive it is to ask people to pick a method
> by focusing on their weaknesses, but it certainly is a realistic way.
>
> Also note that this interface would allow one to drive any triad of
> resampling methods which can be compared and characterized in terms of
> the three common artifacts.
>
> Nicolas Robidoux
> Laurentian University
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:39:57 -0400
> From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobidoux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: a good student UI project...
> To: peter sikking <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, GIMP Developer
> <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <18890.49357.958733.880641@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Peter:
>
> Of course, you could also use the interface to choose between three
> cubic methods, which makes a lot of sense within GEGL (the "jaggy" one
> would be lagrangian bicubic).
>
> Nicolas Robidoux
> Universite Laurentienne
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
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>
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