Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> Raphaël Quinet <quinet@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> > The current GIMP requires GTK+ 2.2.0 and recommends 2.2.2 (this will
> > be required by the next version). Unfortunately, many users of the
> > distributions mentioned above are still using GTK+ 2.0.x, not 2.2.x.
> > Besides, the majority of the users are not using the latest version
> > of their distribution.
>
> - current debian unstable => 2.2.2 (2.2.2-3)
> - current mandrake cooker => 2.2.2 (2.2.2-6mdk)
> - current rh rawhide => 2.2.2 (gtk2-2.2.2-2.1)
>
> mdk9.2 is scheduled to be released on septembed, i do not remebed
> exact date for rh but it's supposed to be at the same time.
> debian is expected to be releasd on december.
>
> so this issue may not be a real one.
It's real in so far as most linux users aren't using RedHat 9.x,
Debian unstable or Mandrake 9.x - I am using Debian testing here,
for example, to which I moved relatively recently from RedHat
6.2, which is still the distro available in work, where we have a
binary package dependency (a database product) that isn't
available in the version we use for later distros.
On that work machine, building a 1.2 GIMP from scratch can be
done in a day (that is, from glib up, through libjpeg, libpng and
friends). Building a 1.3 CVS GIMP takes considerably longer than
that.
> you're left to few classes of users:
>
> - those who use only distro packages: they will wait until a binary
> package is availlable
One of the reasons that we haven't had as much testing as we'd
like yet on 1.3.
> - those who know how ot build programs: they're supposed to know how
> to build dependancies
> and anyway, maybe adding a few ifdef round gimp code using specific
> 2.2.x features if it can safely be disabled may help users of older
> releases or other distros.
This is an immense simplification. There are people who want to
use the new GIMP, but have had problems building some part of
it. You're forgetting that the target audience of the GIMP is a
user interested in graphics, not a developer.
> > > this is a valid point for:
> > > - users of very old distributions
Even recent distros - GNOME 2 has only been around for a little
over a year.
> > > - non developer users (that is most end users)
And most people we're interested in.
> > > - windows users (for which getting both a working development suit and
> > > enough knowledge to build something with required dependancies is
> > > probably not easy)
Setting up a build environment in windows is something of a
nightmare. Windows users are also our biggest user base, I
reckon. And they also find lots of bugs in the GIMP because it's
used in ways that Linux doesn't even think of doing.
> > Assuming that a system has at least some basic tools such as make and
> > a compiler, building GIMP 1.3.x adds 27 dependencies (or 32 if you are
> > a developer who also needs libtool, autoconf, etc.) Compare this with
> > GIMP 1.2.x, which had only 11 dependencies (or 14 for developers.)
>
> factoring features around all tools is nice even if it's bring more
> dependancies.
Sure - it's The Unix Way to use smaller packages to do specific
jobs. The point is that each smaller package which isn't already
available on the system raises the barrier for entry for GIMP
building.
> and since other oses are either small regarding number of users or
> their users are expected to know how to build something (eg: those who
> already build gimp on solaris like you) are able to deal with a few
> more dependancies that are anyway needed for other programs, i think
> this issue can then be closed and this feature be not provided by
> gimp.org.
I'm not sure I follow the reasoning... The point is that to get
more people using, testing, contributing to and developping for
the newer version of the GIMP, freely available binary packages
lower the barrier. Of course we don't want to build the packages,
but if volunteers do packages for a given distro, we should have
one place where we link to the externally maintained binaries. It
would be pretty simple to do, and would, I think, prove a great
benefit to people eager to see what we've been up to for the last
3 years.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
David Neary,
Lyon, France
E-Mail: bolsh@xxxxxxxx
