On Wednesday 20 April 2005 02:15, Mike Bird wrote: > On Tue, 2005-04-19 at 22:40, Rodd Clarkson wrote: > > until you can give the developers something concrete with which to > > work all the other comments about this aren't going to amount to squat. > > Rodd, > > Grub's DEVELOPERS have already abandoned Grub. Grub is legacy, > obsolete, bereft of life, resting in peace. Grub is only here because > some MAINTAINER at Redhat nailed Grub to the perch. Arrgh .. I cannot believe I am replying to the but ... Yes, GRUB (1) is now considered legacy and work is proceeding on GRUB2. I would expect to see GRUB2 offered (probably in parallel with GRUB Legacy) in some future release of Fedora Core. I personally much prefer grub to lilo because of the lilo problems I have had in the past ... configuring lilo to do multiple boots (chainloads) of different partitions whereas grub does this cleanly and reliably. > > What is wrong with Grub is that Grub is not as reliable as Lilo. That > is why Lilo is needed for serious work. Software developers understand > that reliability is important. System administrators understand that > reliability is important. Users understand that reliability is > important. Business managers may not know how to change their > screensavers but even they understand that reliability is important. As others have repeatedly said ... specifics, specifics, specifics, ... As developers have stated in the flaming thread, as far as they know, there are no problems with the current grub. > > Simple test cases are great but not always possible. Repeatable failure > modes are not the only kind of bugs and recoding is not the only kind of > solution. > > The solution here is easy, and doesn't require any coding. Redhat needs > to put Lilo back in Fedora Core is all. Fedora is a leading edge development process. For rock solid usage and support you should be using a product such as Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or one of its clones such as CentOS if you do not need support). RHEL (and CentOS) support lilo. As other have also pointed out, you are free to do lilo yourself on top of FC4 and, if you really want to contribute rather than just bitch, offer to support lilo as part of Fedora Extras. As I understand some of the objection to grub, in the past, grub did not work well in RAID configurations. Well, the claim is now made that it does work for RAID. Can you offer a concrete example where it does not work? If you reply to this message without a concrete example, that implies to me that you do not have one. I too was bit by the removal of packages from FC4 -- nedit. Nedit is my preferred editor for editing program text files but it has been dropped. While I can do nedit myself (and even considered offering to support it for Fedora Extras), this has forced me to look at the alternatives which are included in FC4 (kwrite and kate for example but not gedit). The alternatives look good and (although I may keep nedit around for a bit longer), I believe I will switch. With lilo being dropped, you should consider moving to grub. If reliability is really you prime driver, then get a supported PRODUCT such as RHEL! -- Gene