On 4/19/05, Mike Bird <mgb-fedora@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Apparently Redhat does not consider lack of reliability a bug. I think perhaps you have mis-interpreted what Fedora Core is and what its long term goals versus short term goals are. Reliability is just one metric by which decisions are made, and that metric must be weighed against other factors and goals.. such as rate of change. And I would argue that you can not achieve both a fast rate of change and high reliability with finite resources. I think everyone who continues to try to be interested in your point of view, realizes that you value reliability highly. Everyone is aware that you run some sort of small services or hardware shop and have a compelling business interest to keep certain things in Core that you feel you need to support for your customers. That doesn't change the fact that Fedora as a project has been laided out to prioritize rate of change highly. "slow rate of change" is explicitly spelled out as a non-objective of Core, so is "enabling customer support". Reliability, is not mentioned specifically anywhere on the objectives page. Fedora as a project has a direction and a focus, and its not about high reliability its about introducing changes and making forward progress. I personally think if you sit down and make a list of prioritizes you'll find your personal interests aren't matching up well with the stated objectives and non-objectives of the Fedora project. If thats the case, i think you are going to be perpetually frustrated and you might want to look at another technical solution that better fits with your headspace. > Before the flame wars start again, please recall that we don't want > Grub axed, we just want Lilo included. Redhat has made extravagent > claims of mammoth kludgy code needed to support Lilo. We've > examined Grubby, found nothing of the kind, and placed our analysis > on this list. Redhat has been unwilling or unable to justify their > claims. You catch more flies with honey. You have done an exceedingly poor job in the last 2 weeks, creating an atmosphere where anyone will feel comfortable having civil discourse with you. I think what discussion you have gotten from developers so far has been far more than your attitude has deserved. Personally, i think any developer who continues to interact with you until you are able to file specific technical issues with enough detail that even I can attempt to confirm, is wasting their valuable time which they could be spending doing other things.. more useful things. I challenge everyone who thinks about replying to you anymore in the mailinglist to instead use those 5 minutes to do something constructive or life-affirming (wash some dishs, close some bugs, hack on a patch, smoke some pot, or in mharris's case take a shower)... because this continued rehashing of the same difference of opinion is just a huge waste of time. > All that is left is developer ego. Any business that placed customer > concerns before developer ego would have restored Lilo long ago. Again, this reeks of misconception. Fedora is not a bought and sold product, there are no customers for Fedora. If you want to make an argument like this that is going to resonate.. go somewhere where they are discussing what rhel5 is going to have in it. Fedora is meant as the proving ground for technologies, with a fast rate of change. If this is incompatible with your personal interests, please take the time to find a project or product that better fits your needs. -jef