On 09/24/2012 02:59 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: > On Mon, 2012-09-24 at 13:30 -0700, John Reiser wrote: >>> Do you have any old or new graphic hardware, working or not? Join this test week and help us to hunt down driver bugs before Fedora 18 Beta release! >> >> There is doubt about whether this particular test day is worth the time. > > You're free to doubt whatever you like, but the experiences you appear > to be citing as evidence are not especially relevant. Fedora graphics don't "just work" across the entire range of specified compatible hardware. The end-user experience is horrible for newcomers on low-end hardware which meets the listed requirements. Current requirements are: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/Release_Notes/sect-Release_Notes-Welcome_to_Fedora_17.html#sect-Release_Notes-Hardware_Overview If it is known that any Radeon card less than Radeon 9600 won't work satisfactorily in the default Gnome3 desktop, then Fedora should admit it up front, and raise the minimum stated requirements. > >> At a minimum, don't bother with any Radeon card that is less than a Radeon 9600. >> Fedora pays no attention to bugs on such hardware, not even saying "Sorry, this >> hardware is too old; we will increase the minimum hardware requirement" or >> "This is hardware bug, and a software workaround is not feasible." For instance: >> radeon_rendercheck 152752 failures; pci:1002:5157 Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500] >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638758 >> This card still is usable in XFCE. > > a) You're calling out a test you ran once nearly two years ago. Pretty > sure we've fixed at least one RV200 bug since then. Please give a specific reference. Here are all the CLOSED bugs with RV200. I don't see a single one that is RV200-specific that was fixed after October 2010. Only 680651 and 493328 were fixed; the rest are "WONT FIX". 680651 is not specific to RV200, and 493328 was more than two years ago. ----- 680651 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati airlied@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED ERRA [Redwood][RV280][RV200] oops Radeon ttm_bo_ref_bug 2011-06-25 638758 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati jglisse@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED WONT radeon_rendercheck 152752 failures; pci:1002:5157 Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500] 2012-08-16 583826 Fedora xorg-x11 xgl-maint@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED WONT F13 i686: Radeon RV200 - Firefox+NoScript in Release notes - Crash X in libc.so 2011-06-27 566970 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati jglisse@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED WONT KMS:RV200|M7:7500 Npviewer segfaults and restarts Xorg 2010-12-03 549622 Fedora kernel kernel-maint@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED NOTA When an external monitor is connected to RV200 video card, KMS fails. 2009-12-22 547598 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati xgl-maint@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED DUPL KMS:RV200:M7:7500 resolution switching doesn't work 2010-07-21 533615 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati jglisse@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED WONT KMS:Rv200|M7:7500:Mesa fonts rendering issues and gnome-shell blackness 2010-12-03 533314 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati jglisse@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED CURR KMS:RV200:7500 Graphics corruption (LVDS wrong reg programming ?) 2010-03-12 493328 Fedora xorg-x11-drv-ati airlied@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED ERRA KMS:RV200:7500:MESA Compiz: corrupted menu borders 2010-01-13 446596 Fedora kernel kernel-maint@xxxxxxxxxx CLOSED WONT framebuffer & video mode selection Radeon RV200, EDID pb? 2009-07-14 ----- > > b) rendercheck is just a test battery. Passing all of its tests is not > necessarily a prerequisite for correct rendering of any desktop; if you > don't hit cases that fail, you'd never notice they were broken. Nevertheless, known failures in a designated test case should be listed and explained, whether "hardware is confirmed to be buggy", or "Gnome3 Desktop never uses this drawing mode", or ... (or "We don't know why".) > > c) I'm fairly sure zero of the tests you've shown to fail there _do_ > matter. They all happen when you do a Render operation directly to a > window, and nobody does that. Drawing straight to a window is > unbelievably flickery, that's why everybody buffers things up to an > offscreen pixmap and then blits across to the window (using core > CopyArea, not Render). When I run the anaconda installer for Fedora 18 Alpha, then I see bad _graphics_. It's not clear where the problems lie, and this is Alpha. Nevertheless, I expected better _graphics_. > >> Gnome3 is not putting any effort into fallback mode. So my Radeon 9250 >> purchased new in 2006 as a mid-life upgrade for a box with 1.6GHz Pentium 4 >> (well above the Fedora minimum CPU) also runs only XFCE. Gnome3 forces >> fallback mode, where some Desktop features are *dropped* instead of emulated. > > Why do you feel this is relevant? X bugs are X bugs. > >> Also forget about any card+monitor which does not report EDID/DCC. > > "Forget about broken hardware"? Yeah, please do. That hardware meets Fedora's minimum stated requirements [The requirements mention nothing about graphics hardware.] Furthermore, the hardware is merely old, not necessarily "broken". Just because the hardware pre-dates the feature does not automatically make it "broken". If EDID+DDC is a requirement, then say so. > >> The Xorg.0.log >> may note the true resolution of the panel (for instance, 1024x768), but the driver >> gives only 800x600: >> rage128 uses 800x600 resolution for LCD panel with 1024x768 native resolution >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=493441 > > Your comparison between F17 and F18 therein is interesting but a bit off > the mark. In F17 you're using vesa for some reason; in F18 you're not. > >> The nouveau driver also ignores reports, even on current-generation cards. >> For instance: >> glxgears framerate 12X faster than video refresh >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=639415 > > vsync support isn't something nouveau has always done. But it turns out > things have gotten a lot better since F15; I really wouldn't take a > report of this vintage as indicative of how well things currently work. The same problem persists in the current shipping release Fedora 17, and in Fedora 18 Alpha. I have updated and re-opened the bugzilla for 639415. [The problem is that the high frame rates require high CPU usage (>=85%). One of the purposes of syncing frame rate to display rate is to avoid high CPU usage.] Surprise me with a fix before another two years go by. -- -- test mailing list test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
