Hi, Dne Ne 29. dubna 2012 19:03:18, Máirín Duffy napsal(a): > On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 15:25 +0200, Karel Volný wrote: > > So, feel free to join me with the moment of silence for the > > good old GIMP that is just getting buried. > > If you could tone down the snark and indignation [1] you might > have a halfway decent bug report on the export tool there, > although in any case sending it to friday-list@xxxxxxxxxx > won't do much good. > > [1] This timbre of feedback is part of the reason why I don't > like working on desktop apps. it is a problem of action-reaction leading to a loop which usually ends by someone getting so angry to completely give up trying making things better ... basically, the developers' impact on users is 1. fixing bugs 2. creating new useful features 3. creating new unuseful features 4. breaking existing things because of new unuseful features x. many more options in case 1. and 2., the users are happy and give positive feedback in case 3., sometimes the users get upset if those features get into their way, but generally they tolerate it - "just don't use it", "I'd be happier if they spent time fixing bugs instead but hey that's opensource, I don't pay them ..." in case 4. the users get upset, more or less, but *always* upset now someone writes a rant ... then the developers get upset about the feedback and tell the user he has no right to talk that way then the users get more upset that the developers don't listen to the users and that they are arrogant now the developers are getting really angry because in their eyes it was the user who was arrogant, so tactless to criticise something that "he doesn't understand", and that he was so impolite to say that the developers don't handle the case well ... see the pattern here? the problem is that you really have to go one step back - if an user is doing harm to developers, it is not out of nowhere, but as a reaction to harm caused to him by the developers I hope there doesn't exist one more step before like "in previous iteration, users were bad to us, so let's break some feature to do harm to them" :-) as for my email, this wasn't meant as a serious criticism (hey, I really do *not* say "GIMP sucks") but rather a topic to think about, hence the selection of the target list, with a copy to testlist so that QA can get some inspiration for filing bugs (see below) I apologise for any possible offense caused by me being too much bitter > Re: the EXIF rotation dialog, I'm guessing you're working with > a fresh install / blew away your .gimp-2.x directory because > I've only ever seen that dialog once long ago: if you tell it > to always rotate based on EXIF and not show it again it will > do as you say. It would be a reasonable bug report / feature > request to ask for a preview of what each button would do in > the dialog so you'd know visually what effect taking the > action would have if it's not clear from the text. the preview wouldn't be needed if it'd clearly state "exif orientation" or "file orientation" ... what is "standard"? (now I see the dialogue as a whole is a bit more comprehensible in English than in Czech ...) > If you don't want to file what appears to be a very valid set > of bugs in the new export tool (not remembering the last set > of JPG export settings, registering unsaved changes on the XCF > when there are none.) I suggest using an app like Shotwell for > minor edits to images. um, sorry, no I have more than enough bugs reported (should watch them, retest, provide details ...) for things that I use daily, I'm not interested (I don't have the time) doing this for an application which I use once per month and which I'm currently seeking replacement for ... (thanks for the suggestion for Shotwell, but GIMP was one of the last GTK based things I'm using and I have some negative bias towards the others ... now let's hope that Wireshark won't get any worse :-)) > The reason exporting to file formats like JPG and PNG via > Export rather than Save makes sense to me is because of this > scenario: [cut] yep, it makes sense to you that is why I'm talking about incompatible way of thinking and I'm perfectly okay with the fact that someone wants to do things in another way than me - diversity is good (plus I'm often mistaken, so not doing things like me is really better ;-)) what saddens me is that the other way of thinking is forced on me - I was quite happy in this regard with the previous version of GIMP but now I have to find something more suitable for me ... I really don't like this practice of "overtaking" projects (or how to call that) - there is something that is good enough for zillions of users, now someone comes and says this must be changed and it is changed, leaving the users disappointed this seems to me less than optimal ... if there is some new idea, let it live along the old one and see which one is better - if most of the users voluntarily move to the new one then let the old one slowly die, as the users are moving away, but if the users stick with the old one, they do not find the new one better, then let die the new one and don't push it to everyone by force (and keep both if users like both) > I'm going to LGM next week so I'll try to show the bugs you > pointed out here to the Gimp folks there if I get the chance > to speak with them, but it would definitely be helpful for you > to file bug reports as well if you are interested. thanks, I appreciate that - when I've provided details about the problems I was hoping that someone may use it as an inspiration; I, personally, am no longer interested, see above K. -- Karel Volný QE BaseOs/Daemons Team Red Hat Czech, Brno tel. +420 532294274 (RH: +420 532294111 ext. 8262074) xmpp kavol@xxxxxxxxx :: "Never attribute to malice what can :: easily be explained by stupidity."
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