On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Christopher Antila <crantila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello: > > I would like to respond to Karsten and Onyeibo in the same email. As last > time, I will be as short as possible, so if anything doesn't make sense, then > please ask. > > Karsten said: >> [C]ould a resolution be as simple as, "Let's get >> some examples of world music, such as X, Y, and Z, as sound themes >> before we start pulling in the Great Canon of Western Music"? > Yes, I think that's the answer. I wasn't sure at first what to do, but at no > point was I thinking that we should destroy or ignore this first sound theme. A > large part of what scared me is that it seemed like an "open-and-shut" case > for changing the default sound theme--principally because this new theme is so > good. > > The sounds are high quality, they're made from a free recording, they're non- > intrusive, and even a little bit crafty. "system-ready" and "desktop-login" > coincide nicely with each other and the form of the symphony. Not only do the > motives follow each other in the symphony, but the motive used for "desktop- > login" introduces the second theme in the symphony as well as the second > screen you interact with after turning on your computer. I don't know if this > was intentional, but it's there. > > Karsten again: >> I wouldn't so much say that having Beethoven as a first sound theme is >> a bad thing, more that it is what you might expect given the cultural >> connotation. What can we do to encourage people to make themes from >> all over the world? > This will be the sticky point. Personally, I'd like to see some other sound > themes go along with it - and I'm willing to take part. If, in the end, > everybody disagrees with me, I'm not going to throw another tantrum. > > Plus, the biggest issue was default or opt-in, and as Onyeibo replied, this > new sound theme... >> does not represent a default sound-theme for fedora product but an option >> different from the freedesktop theme which has been the only theme >> shipping with fedora for 3 yrs AFAIK > > On a different topic, Karsten again: >> Part of your argument is political, and interesting, and probably >> on-topic for this music-oriented list (if you think the way I do.) But >> that part is also a lighting rod, and I think your point about seeking >> a broader range of sound themes stands on its own without invoking >> concern about Western music canon hegemony. > There should be a good variety, and Onyeibo mentioned that this is just the > Fedora Sound SIG's first product. I wouldn't for a minute, however, suggest > that we withhold the theme on grounds of there being an insufficient range of > personal choices; I suggest this only for political reasons. > > Again, I don't want to ignore the effort that's gone into creating this > particular sound theme. It's difficult to predict the broader implications of > small-scale actions, so it seems to me like we should just wait for a month or > two, until we can release a few sound themes as a collection. It even makes > sense from a packaging perspective: if there will eventually be 20 sound > themes, for example, why not package them in groups of 5 or 10, rather than > forcing users to install 20 packages just to try out all the sound themes? > > Karsten said: >> There is another argument I think you are making, if the sound themes >> quickly fill up with Western "best of" music, it might make people >> outside of that niche feel their music doesn't have a place. "Oh, our >> cool local rhythms are all right, but not Great and Good like >> Beethoven, so I won't waste Fedora people's time with them." ÂI do >> think that is a real concern, and applies to any area of participation >> in Fedora. > We're a long way from that, but now is the time to start thinking about these > potential problems. In fact, when I first heard about this project, I began > contemplating using my own favourite (canonic Western classical music) work > for a sound theme. Two sound themes are twice as intimidating as one! > > Onyeibo said: >> It follows that no particular culture is being favoured although the >> present appear to suggest a preference to Western European Music. > Unfortunately, appearance is everything in cases like these. Nobody can guess > your motives, but everybody can see the apparent preference. > > Onyeibo again: >> 'Old-Fashioned Primitivism'? ÂThat doesn't sound objective -- not nice >> either. > I admit to using biased language, but "Primitivism" is indeed what's going on > at Ubuntu, and it isn't nice. > >> If you believe Microsoft has solved the problem then it can be >> done, more so, by Fedora Contributors when they put there resources to >> it. > I agree! > >> I see a lot of reasoning in your argument though it doesn't fully >> apply in this case. > My point is exactly that it doesn't all *seem* to apply. I don't expect to be > able to convince everybody in one go, so please ask specific questions. I am > more than happy to explain everything in much greater detail, and to provide > proof in the form of recognized scholars talking about issues like this. > >> We could use more of your constructive >> approach/analysis at #fedora-sound channel (freenode). >> Thanks > I will start lurking around there when I'm using IRC. For this discussion, I > think it's important to keep things on a easily searchable mailing list, for > future reference. > > Thank you for your thoughtful and quick responses. As long as this isn't a > pre-approved default sound theme, I'm much less concerned. In retrospect, I > should have started with just that simple question! > > > Christopher > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNrRlkAAoJEInCktGVqZ8VQYEH/jqH0gIpYsP10u6swEQ5zRSh > ta9xWFtczcLNCiamAdtA/vSzjVar1nayEMco0fNEd9GGoGaaOLhEYBUgONi5kywr > 5crsePrJmntmuPmJPeOlXV+0ALlldicLpthJQlyJ/lM5aYEzYbnJyDP9dBNMfOAS > uPeVageRuy4FIYbWgmShm/SokOWif8+FTXq4Lsu5cqAJc6Cxsgb3swls30cLOq9v > v+TDTSHf4h+qbBT8KfSuh7DR7wvndm5Jq92E6kwwo3NhP2P09+sfz7Tslo7xJW/+ > z2c3aZp7K2gOaLwSpO8w7uTNXsiynuMMXBb+TPKPOlzAIXLpcVIzSrPxdK8ZGeg= > =PS0Q > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > music mailing list > music@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music > Christopher, I also responded in the bug, but I'll do it again here. I'll start with a clarification: I am not European, I am not a musician, I am just someone who wanted to do good. I am, in fact, Israeli, and I did not start with a local sound theme. We, at the Fedora sound SIG welcome every sort of theme, every genre, as long it is free. I do not think "classical music" is better than any other genre. In fact, I will be happy if our second sound theme would be something from a certain, less widely appreciated local. We want as many sound themes as possible. The Beethoven sound theme was not even meant to be are first, I just had some free time during the weekend and I felt creative. In fact, Onyeibo was the one who was supposed to make the first sound theme, his suggestion was much more interesting than another well known piece of "classical music". You can check out his mockup recording in the wiki. Note that I did not even made a blog post about this theme. I don't want it's creation to get too much publicity because the nature of this theme, and especially because it is not an original creation (I am not the one who played or wrote the music). So, users are not going to notice this one unless they explicitly search for sound themes. To solve the "intimidation" issue I agree to change the package description to say it is a proof of concept and we welcome more themes, from any genre, as long they are free. -- -Elad. _______________________________________________ music mailing list music@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
