On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 11:59 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote: > > On 07/28/2015 11:30 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote: > > Why not? Matthew already mentioned a few things. Why shouldn't > > advanced > > Fedora users that go to events be informed of what's new in a > > release? > > Even if they are advanced users, they don't necessarily keep up > > with > > the changes in each release the way we contributors do. > > See my reply to Matthew. > > If they want to know at the booth what the latest features are, why > not > bring up the release notes on the booth laptop and show them, walk > them > through? You could even offer to email them the link if they don't > have > time to go through it there. Well, not all the conversations we have are at booths with laptops around, are they? Booths generally have one or two contributors there and they can speak to one or two people at a time. Flyers can be given out to people that can read them at leisure, and even if they do end up in the bin, as long as they read the flyer, it served its purpose. I really have no objections to not having flyers. I'm merely passing on information gathered from the discussion on the ambassadors list here. Some do feel tat flyers are a good idea, and if we don't want to produce them, we should have a better way of showing off what the products do and what's new and so on - an alternative that doesn't sacrifice on information content, basically. The initial version of the plan had only one flyer - the timeless one which would provide some information on all the products. When Matthew suggested we follow an approach similar to the targeted products approach, I added the product specific flyers. I, frankly, have no other ideas on how to do this at the moment: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2015-July/017782.ht ml https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AAnkursinha%2FMarketi ng_Collateral_Ideas&diff=418723&oldid=415777 > > > > Folks who are already users / advanced users aren't going to use > > > a > > > flyer > > > or any printed / PDF document as a primary source for > > > information. > > > There > > > are much better ways to reach these folks. > > > > This has been noted already[1] > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha/Marketing_Collateral > > _Ide > > as > > I see it noted in the chart. However, *print* materials are still > suggested rather prominently in the actual proposal for these users. > I > disagree that this is necessary. The information (which I agree is of > value to those audiences) can be shared with them without the need > for > printed materials. Great! Please add these other methods to the wiki page - gathering this information is the entire point of this RFC :) > > There should probably be a 'general return on investment > (effort/cost)' > column added there too to help with evaluation. That's the reason we > did > release notes flyers before and don't do it anymore! I thought that was because no one had the time - that they weren't high enough priority in the task list, not because they weren't required at all. > > > The plan here is: > > > > - to request the design team for scribus templates (you'd suggested > > this yourself in the meeting where my original e-mail was > > discussed) > > Where are the minutes from this? https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-design/2015-06-02/fedora-desig n.2015-06-02-16.02.log.html/ is where you'd suggested coming up a visual design and then in your feedback on the ML, you'd said LaTeX wasn't the best choice and Scribus would be much nicer. Since this meeting log is being brought up, I'd like to say that this statement is incorrect: 16:59:14 <gnokii> well I told the guy last time that it is not his job to create them, he ignored it and the flyer got printed behind our back At an EMEA meeting in December, Jiri had asked if any progress had been made on flyers since he'd like some for an upcoming event and I had said I could work on one, which is what they used: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-12-10/emea_ambassadors.2014-12-10-21.01.log.html/ 21:58:56 <sesivany> FranciscoD: do you have an idea if there has been any progress in flyers? That's what we identified as the most missing thing. To have flyers at least about the official products. 21:59:17 <FranciscoD> sesivany: there haven't been any - they haven't even been discussed recently 21:59:26 <sesivany> because we want to give away materials that hold some informaton. 21:59:32 <FranciscoD> I plan to work on the workstation flyer, but I havent been able to do much yet 21:59:35 <FranciscoD> hopefully this weekend 21:59:52 <FranciscoD> sesivany: can you assign that as an action item to me please? 22:00:17 <sesivany> FranciscoD: that's what I thought :-( They had all kinds of ideas about flyers and I was like: give me any, ANY flyer and I'll be happy :) gnokii had curtly mentioned a ticket already being around and that it was being worked on - it wasn't, and the ticket was already 4 months old and still unaccepted at the time of the meeting (noted later in the meeting) . It was filed in August last year and Paul closed the ticket in January. I had, therefore, gone ahead and made a workstation flyer. > > I knew I'd been involved in a discussion about this already, and I am > disappointed that it seems a lot of the concerns and recommendations > I > remember bringing up as representative of the Design Team don't seem > to > be considered (as far as my memory goes, which I know may not be > accurate.) It would be helpful to see the minutes as a refresher. I > can't seem to find them on meetbot. I'm sorry if it seems like the design teams input was not considered. It was because of the feedback that I'd received from the design folks that I took a step back and went to the ambassadors for their input. I put all the info and feedback I had out to the ambassadors and marketing teams. There have been various views on the marketing collateral and I've done my best to put them on the wiki page there, which I've regularly encouraged people to view and edit. > > > - to request the various WGs for text that will go into the flyer > > Ryan, Robyduck, and I went through this process with trying to get > text > / content from the WGs for the new Fedora website. It is a lot of > work - > the different WGs have different meeting schedules and they are > pretty > much all volunteer so not a lot of spare time. To do that every > release > is going to be quite a challenge. I understand. I've done it again recently - the council briefly discussed this in an open floor meeting too - and we received responses from the WGs already. They need to be reminded of the task and I'm happy take up the task of reminding them. On the other hand, if it does become a task that needs to be done each release, it can be added to the per release task lists that the Fedora program manager publishes, and that will hopefully imply that we'll have to do less work to get the information. > > > - for the marketing team to put this together and make the flyer > > available. > > > > This spreads out the work load and I think it's quite manageable. > > I'm > > happy to run around and get the different WGs to provide text - I'm > > doing this already. The design team will not need to update the > > template each release either - it'll be a one off task. > > It's not... illustrations and photos have to be sourced as > appropriate > for each release's given feature set / announcements. Did you take a > look at the example I provided before? Even the non-release specific > photos showing community members have to be updated once in a while. Oh? Well, I'd done this, and it was sort of easy - probably because I didn't do any design work at all - and I left alignment and everything else to LaTeX: https://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fedora-flyer-workstation/fedora-fly er-workstation.pdf I'd used LaTeX because it resulted in something very similar to the older odt flyer: https://github.com/sanjayankur31/fedora-release-flyer-generic/blob/mast er/flyers/2010-06/fedora-flyer-2010-06-ind-en.odt?raw=true > > I'd really rather us point to a much more easily-managed web resource > for this kind of content, because the end product quality is much > easier > to guarantee. This is a great idea, and zoltahn has made this suggestion already - something on the lines of Mozilla's press blog. We could just come up with QR codes and things that take people to the relevant web locations. Unfortunately neither zoltahn's initial suggestion nor my reiteration received any feedback and the idea didn't get anywhere: https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/177#comment:6 and point 3 here: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2015-June/017546.ht ml > We're (the design team) trying to up the bar on the > materials we produce and associate with the Fedora brand. I think > achieving that involves more design team input than us spitting out a > scribus template one-time and dusting off our hands. That's good to know. The goal of this thread is to improve the collateral plan until we have stuff that meets everyone's standards at least: - design wise - content and information wise - work load wise - ?? So, all input is welcome. Please edit the wiki page directly when you need to. -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
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