On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 12:46 +0530, Tejas Dinkar wrote: > Excuse me? > This is not only terribly rude and offensive, it is also innacurate. > Perhaps, you should look up some indian open source Contributors. > From Sirtaj, one of the founding members of KDE, > Rahul, here on the Fedora Board, > The founder of Anjuta (which is named after his wife) > Shreyas S (gnome developer, ex maintainer of evo for mac until his mac > was pried from his hands) > Satish (writes a hell of a lot of kernel modules, and heads the Red Hat > bangalore offices) > Sankarshan > Runa B > Gopal Vijayraghavan, Lead developer of dotgnu, > and I could go on for a while > This comment is simply racist. That's because you took it wrong and didn't pay attention to the fact I was talking about _major_ H1B Visa and outsourcing abusers like Diebold, IBM, Microsoft, State Farm, etc... when it comes to _commercial_ software or in-house software development. Understand *I* have worked with _many_ foreign nationals on _many_ engineering projects. In fact, I've often been a "minority native-born American" on them and that was just fine by me! Immigrants make the United States -- something Americans don't realize. They have been _experts_ and, in many cases, _uniquely_qualified_. This _includes_ many _outstanding_ open source project originators and maintainers. But the problem right now in the US is that we keep importing the _crap_ of the world on 90% of our H1B Visas and while letting the "lowest foreign bidder" develop software, 90% who are typically _not_ qualified. My points are ... A. In the open source world, the software is produced by qualified people. These people typically have a passion for their development, and they excel at it. They can be _any_ nationality, and many are _not_ Americans. You get the _best_ the _world_ has to offer. B. In the commercial software world, the software is produced by commercial funding of "the lowest price." In these cases, many _unqualified_ Indian, Irish, Israeli and other firms are tapped -- or H1B Visas granted to bring such _unqualified_ individual in because of the costs. You get the _lowest_price_ the _world_ has to offer. C. I have personally seen this first-hand in a half-dozen Fortune 100 companies. I have written both requirements for outsourced software as well as managed H1B Visa workers. In a couple of cases, they wanted to (and sometimes did) send me or someone I worked with to a foreign nation to supervise these developers. In 90% of the cases, they were _not_ remotely qualified -- and it was a pure cost game, one that was impossible to deal with. But American companies don't care, and that's why we get the crap in commercial software! So *WHY* would you *PAY* for *COMMERCIAL* software that is the "lowest price the world has to offer" when you can get *OPEN*SOURCE* software designed by "the best the world has to offer"? That's why Open Source is _better_! D. The IEEE has been trying to get the stupid "pro-protectionalim v. pro-immigration" non-sense to stop, because _both_ sides are _wrong_! H1B Visas are basically indentured servitude. Green Cards are not. If you give an immigrant a Green Card, they aren't under the thumb of a sponsoring company, but free to take whatever job they want. This not only means they won't be underpaid, unlike in the H1B Visa system, but it also means we aren't letting corporations import _crap_ merely because of price. Linus Torvalds is one of the IEEE's Poster Children on this -- he was given a H1B Visa when he was _unqiuely_qualified_ and should have been given a Green Card. Miguel deIcaza is another. As a responsible American, I _welcome_ both world competition and immigration. But right now, America is _shooting_ itself in the foot by allowing its companies to import unqualified slaves under H1B Visas and outsourcing to companies who clearly are _not_ qualified to do many software developments. That's why the crap we get from IBM, Microsoft and many others is junk. It's why Diebold, State Farm and other financial companies are putting in _horrendous_ security nightmares into our financial systems. It's why Boeing, Lockheed-Martin and other firms have major development issues (even if Americans with Security Clearances design the products, some of the IT/software they use is more H1B Visa and outsourced "lowest price" non-sense). I hope you see my point now. I, as well as the IEEE, typically get caught in the cross-fire between "protectionalism" and "immigration." H1B Visa are _not_ immigration. They do _not_ allow America to become better by allowing the best of the world to immigrate. And outsourcing is being done irresponsibly in 90% of cases. I have argued where oursourcing does and doesn't work, just like I argued where COTS usage at NASA does and doesn't work in the '90s. You can't save on everything! But that all does _not_ matter when it comes to community developed software! You get the _best_ of the world! People who want to work on software. People who _know_ their field! Not merely someone who is paid, or in 90% of cases, _overstates_ what their company can do for the "lowest price." Sorry, that's what I see from 90% of the Indian, Irish and Israeli firms and H1B Visa workers I've worked with and saved their asses on. That's the commercial software world in the US for you right now. It's that other 10%, the ones that are actually worth more, that get the shaft. Luckily they make up the bulk of open source software development. The best the world has to offer. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx http://thebs413.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------ ****** Speed doesn't kill. Difference in speed does! ****** -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
