I would love to discuss with you a manual on Containers/Docker so please drop in on my Office Hours on Wed @ 1300UTC
Best Regards,
Laura
====================
I like the idea of a 'why to use virtualization'. This will be very handy
if we do put docker in that guide.
I'd like to see docker documented, the question I have (being a total noob
for containers) - would someone looking for docker go to a virtualization
guide??
Sandra
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Glen Rundblom <glen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello,
I was looking over the wiki page outline for the virtualization getting
started guide, and thought two things:
1. Do we need a chapter (3) on why someone should use virtualization
2. I think we should include a chapter about Docker
I was thinking about Docker because to overcome the publican problems in
Fedora22 I built a Fedora21 image with publican so I can build the guides.
It occurred to me that it probably should be in the guide as well.
Respectfully,
-Glen
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 16:21:28 +0200
From: "Brian (bex) Exelbierd" <bex@xxxxxxxxx>
To: For participants of the Documentation Project
<docs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fedora Docs Workflow and Publishing Improvement Project
Message-ID: <C5E65D89-4510-4B4F-B41E-55681E3E3292@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I talked with randomuser about strategy moving forward. I have written up our conversation in an interview style. The primary goal is to start some conversation around these topics. Therefore:
YOUR HOMEWORK: Send an email back with the questions this raised for you
Our ulterior motive is to further inform our presentation at Flock.
---
To understand where we are going, we have to know where that is.
*What is the goal of the docs group and docs.fedoraproject.org?*
The docs group as having two basic, related goals: assisting developers, and assisting users. Our current strategy does a reasonably thorough job of assisting users, but we don't do as well with assisting developers, or new docs contributors, for that matter. There's lots of new crazy code out there, and the large book strategy has a lot of inertia and can feel stifling when it comes to new additions and rapidly changing areas.
*How do we fix this?*
The high-level solution is to enable developers and experienced users to write about whatever they like to do. We would use a workflow that leverages the Docs Team's greatest strength, experience. People can work with seasoned writers to produce very high-quality work.
The biggest problem Docs contributors have is finding something to do, so that workflow should provide a pipeline of requests working through clearly defined steps. a request could be from a user ie https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1229560 or from a developer, ie the API reference discussion, or internally generated by the docs team as a need for an upcoming release. The focus of this process should be on the quality of content and the efficacy of addressing a specifically defined topic. Someone shouldn't have to worry too much about markup or tools unless they've specifically opted to work in a markup or with the tools.
This goes beyond just telling people, "You can write whatever you want however you want and get help with the publishing." That's not enough. The scope of our books is really too big to facilitate focused topical writing. The cookbook is evidence of that; Randomuser has offered cookbook assistance to many people and few take the bait. The new strategy is to build publishing/site generation tooling that supports varied content. This way contributors can range from independently capable writers, to SMEs looking to share but not learn the specifics of publishing, to requesters, to those wanting to write but needing assistance to get there.
Ideally, we reach a point where each specialty group/SIG has a set of articles covering their interests, in a format that they're able to maintain. The only real example of that we have is the Amateur Radio Guide. And this is is basically single-handedly maintained by jjmcd, despite there being many other Fedora contributors doing radio stuff. This isn't ideal, but it is working for today. Rather than try to fix a working process, let's try to get more folks on-board, for example the Astronomy SIG.
*How are we going to implement the solution?*
Implementation is a challenge. There are two aspects, **Community** and **Tooling**.
On the community side, We don't have a well conceived plan (other than sharing and organic growth - which is slow and not guaranteed). This is critical as tools are not valuable if no one uses them. We can't grow our docs if maintenance consumes all of the folks involved.
With regards to tooling, we have lots of bright people and lots of ideas around tooling. Tooling is solvable and being worked on. You can contribute to and follow the progress at https://github.com/immanetize/anerist . But beforewarned, it could be be better described.
*How do you envision the workflow for a new content change/addition?*
The system consists of a bunch of restricted commit repos containing large guides, collections of ReST articles, whatever. When a change is committed to a repo the tooling will see the commit and attempt to generate html from the affected files. If that succeeds, (and hopefully if it passes some validation tests, the strings in Zanata (Internationalization Tool) will be automatically updated to make the work available for translation immediately. The tooling will also extract some metadata from the document (title, subtitle, abstract, categorical information, etc.) and ultimately use that to generate a stage version of the docs site for verification before publication.
An individual contribution comes in via a pull request workflow. This could be via a pagure.io solution or via a traditional git clone solution. Pagure.io has the benefit of bringing the fork/edit/PR process into a web-based format perfect for many contributors and for drive-by contributors. The merge starts the process just mentioned.
Ideally we can support acls on a per branch and repository basis. This way a SIG, for example, could have control of their specific documentation by merging PRs. Members of the docs-writers group would have global commit capability. The branch structure can resemble many popular open source projects with a master that is clean and release branches for future maintenance. The system is branch-aware, so everything from 'master' goes to a draft area, things in f$n gets labeled as appropriate for f$n.
*What are our big blockers today?*
1. Community Outreach and Growth Plan.
2. Website redesign for docs.fedoraproject.org - it is stalled on some decisions around older docs, etc.
3. Publishing is stalled on both design and the need to integrate legacy tools such as publican in a new paradigm with other formats that use other tools. These need to all roll to a common docs listing/Table of Contents.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:25:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Laura Novich <lnovich@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: docs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Meeting Summary Laura's Office Hours June 17
Message-ID:
<1580512685.26756029.1434983158683.JavaMail.zimbra@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Meeting about Virtualization in Fedora Documentation
(04:07:15 PM) lnovich: I'm here
(04:07:59 PM) lnovich: i am not sure how to start a meeting, so let's begin?
(04:09:11 PM) grundblom: neat, I think we were discussing the virtualization guide, I pulled it down and I see the last commit from June 1 2014 by Pete Travis, do I have the correct one?
(04:09:27 PM) ruigo_ [rgouveia@nat/redhat/x-ulytgqsqbmktyizi] entered the room.
(04:09:30 PM) lnovich: need to distinguish with a brief history
(04:09:45 PM) lnovich: there is more than one virtualization guide
(04:09:53 PM) suehle left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
(04:09:58 PM) ruigo left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(04:10:23 PM) grundblom: sure:
(04:10:24 PM) lnovich: so we need to be specific. - I created a guide about a year ago called the virtualization deployment and administration guide
(04:10:44 PM) lnovich: it WAS up to date for Fedora 19/20
(04:11:02 PM) lnovich: and should have been published at the time - it was left in draft state
(04:11:14 PM) lnovich: then there is the virtualization guide
(04:11:20 PM) lnovich: which should be much older
(04:12:08 PM) lnovich: what Pete did I don't recall
(04:12:42 PM) grundblom: Oh, so I might be looking at the wrong guide
(04:13:09 PM) lnovich: i kind of pulled out of the project so I am not sure what happened during my absence
(04:13:18 PM) p_ondrejka [peter@nat/redhat/x-sczvefygzvjhkrdl] entered the room.
(04:13:54 PM) lnovich: randomuser would /should know
(04:14:01 PM) grundblom: So in the last docs meeting, we were discussing focusing attention on it right? or did I misinterpret that?
(04:14:02 PM) grundblom: or at least on one of them..
(04:14:11 PM) lnovich: yes
(04:14:12 PM) mccann [4281f10a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.129.241.10] entered the room.
(04:14:30 PM) lnovich: that was right we were discussing adding new content
(04:14:49 PM) lnovich: I haven't seen this content and don't know where it has been discussed to add it
(04:15:01 PM) ruigo_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(04:15:27 PM) mccann left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(04:15:46 PM) smccann [4281f10a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.129.241.10] entered the room.
(04:15:55 PM) grundblom: Well the virt-getting-started guide has had some updates, smccann and I have been working on it.. I think that is some of the new content
(04:16:03 PM) lnovich: ok
(04:16:12 PM) lnovich: that is an excellent place to start
(04:16:26 PM) smccann: sorry to join late
(04:16:30 PM) lnovich: have the changes been committed?
(04:16:46 PM) lnovich: do you have an outline somewhere on a wiki page?
(04:18:03 PM) grundblom: that I do not know, I myself did not make an outline, my last commits to the virt-getting-started guide were just before F22 release
(04:18:19 PM) lnovich: nevermind found the guide
(04:19:37 PM) grundblom: I was hoping to bring some of the boxes content from the virt-getting-started guide to the virt guide, but, I am now wondering which guide it would be appropriate for
(04:19:58 PM) lnovich: understand your confusion
(04:20:11 PM) Capesteve: lnovich: check the branches, I think smccann has been committing to a branch
(04:20:15 PM) lnovich: let's first of all take a look at the getting started guide
(04:20:21 PM) smccann: his changes and mine were published with F22
(04:20:40 PM) smccann: Capesteve - I graduated to master branch before the f22 release :-)
(04:20:57 PM) lnovich: ok back to what I was saying?
(04:20:59 PM) smccann: So what's out on the web is the latest/greatest on the virt getting started
(04:21:06 PM) lnovich: yes
(04:21:14 PM) lnovich: it should be
(04:21:26 PM) Capesteve: oh, good news :)
(04:21:41 PM) jreznik left the room (quit: Quit: Konversation terminated!).
(04:21:50 PM) lnovich: the getting started guide needs some more revisions to change it into something better
(04:22:14 PM) smccann: ok feedback always welcome!
(04:22:46 PM) lnovich: this is no fault to you, but we should decide how this guide is going to be planned
(04:22:53 PM) lnovich: what information is to stay/ leave
(04:22:58 PM) lnovich: and what needs to be addede
(04:23:00 PM) lnovich: added
(04:23:33 PM) smccann: what's the best way to track your recommendations? bugs? wiki page? email list?
(04:23:34 PM) jreznik [jreznik@nat/redhat/x-zwxsnhnkkvemkwte] entered the room.
(04:23:39 PM) lnovich: if this is a getting started all it needs is 1 a brief intro and 2 a quick start
(04:24:03 PM) lnovich: HOWEVER - if this is to become an Installation guide - that is something else all together
(04:24:15 PM) lnovich: that choice is up to you
(04:24:29 PM) smccann: i'd like to keep it a getting started - for the newbie who just wants to bring up a VM and use it.
(04:24:50 PM) lnovich: the virtualization deployment and admin guide is much more comprehensive
(04:25:05 PM) lnovich: ok so a newbie needs more info
(04:25:22 PM) lnovich: chapter 2 is in need of several things
(04:25:46 PM) lnovich: we need to explain what a hypervisor is
(04:25:55 PM) ruigo_ [rgouveia@nat/redhat/x-whkerbzuyeoftdor] entered the room.
(04:26:00 PM) lnovich: what guests/hypervisors are supported
(04:26:15 PM) lnovich: and what the possibilities are in combination
(04:27:04 PM) lnovich: we should also explain how devices are emulated
(04:27:30 PM) smccann: hmm... does a newbie wanting to bring up a VM really need the emulation details?
(04:27:44 PM) lnovich: no but they won't know it is possible to do so
(04:27:56 PM) lnovich: not the nitty gritty details
(04:27:59 PM) smccann: k so just a brief intro to it
(04:29:16 PM) lnovich: we should probably put these ideas into a wiki page somewhere
(04:30:14 PM) smccann: yeah I'm taking notes I can move to a wiki but how do I decide where to put it?
(04:30:43 PM) lnovich: I'll set up a page
(04:31:10 PM) smccann: kk
(04:31:10 PM) grundblom: Thats what I was thinking, I didnt know if there were Fedora wiki guide change pages..
(04:33:25 PM) mnavrati left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(04:37:50 PM) grundblom: smccann does the current virt getting started guide build for you?
(04:38:39 PM) smccann: it did before I upgraded to f22. I noticed it didn't after that, but wondered if I'd messed up my upgrade. I haven't gone back to check
(04:39:06 PM) smccann: and I'm not on that machine right now. IF you are also having issues, then it wasn't my upgrade that messed it up. I'll poke at it later
(04:39:09 PM) grundblom: Yeah it does not build on my F22 box, I did a nuke and pave install..
(04:39:26 PM) ***randomuser sips coffee
(04:39:37 PM) smccann: hmm. there was something somewhere about publican perhaps having issues in f22... sound familiar to anyone here?
(04:39:42 PM) randomuser: there is a known libxml2 bug affectiong f>21
(04:40:01 PM) randomuser: the spelling is at the bottom of the mug
(04:40:09 PM) smccann: randomuser - so we should continue to build on F21 only?
(04:41:49 PM) grundblom: hrm, I missed that bug..
(04:41:59 PM) pbokoc: you could make a VM :)
(04:42:05 PM) pbokoc: or a container
(04:42:30 PM) randomuser: CC yourself on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1199396 to start
(04:42:36 PM) smccann: AAAHAHAH!!!
(04:42:42 PM) grundblom: We could make a F21 box in our F22 install to make documentation for F22
(04:42:58 PM) randomuser: I've been using yelp to preview and a vm for proofing
(04:43:02 PM) smccann: yes, pbokoc and grundblom, we could!
(04:43:20 PM) grundblom: I am going to need more hard drive space and ram...
(04:43:41 PM) randomuser: but really, get on that bug. The package maintainer gets a notification every time, often more CCs is treated as an escalation
(04:43:51 PM) bexelbie: consider using a docker container to run publican
(04:44:00 PM) bexelbie: yruseva, almost has a container completed ^^
(04:44:23 PM) ***bexelbie does it with some other publishing tools that are "fragile" or want a crap-ton of dependencies I don't want on my main box
(04:45:14 PM) smccann: erm.. new to docker, where do we document that for fedora? :-)
(04:45:22 PM) p_ondrejka left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(04:46:39 PM) pbokoc: Docker documents that for Fedora :) https://docs.docker.com/installation/fedora/
(04:46:58 PM) lnovich: nested virtualization is working in F22?
(04:47:18 PM) mnavrati [milan@nat/redhat/x-qzmvvzhysisrczbg] entered the room.
(04:48:15 PM) randomuser: iirc you have to do something extra to make it work, lnovich, but it's been a few years since I've tried
(04:48:42 PM) Corey84: nested as in vm in a vm ?
(04:48:52 PM) lnovich: Corey84: yes
(04:49:11 PM) lnovich: otherwise you won't be able to install a vm on a vm
(04:49:22 PM) bexelbie: docker is installed by default
(04:49:25 PM) p_ondrejka [peter@nat/redhat/x-oeefiklypuszmtut] entered the room.
(04:49:30 PM) bexelbie: in F21 and F22 iirc
(04:49:32 PM) smccann: there was something in BIOS to check/change i think
(04:49:54 PM) grundblom: Ok, so for my take-aways I have: 1. Install Docker and get the publican tools from F21 working so I can build again,
(04:50:25 PM) lnovich: ok so something more to add to the guides
(04:50:30 PM) bexelbie: grundblom, if you are going to get the tools working you can use a VM and not have to learn Docker - in the future yruseva should have a container we can use
(04:50:30 PM) grundblom: lnovich is making a wiki page for an outline on what we need to do for the virt-getting-started guide to be able to bring its content to a more comprehensive guide..
(04:50:36 PM) ***bexelbie may be able to push her a bit this week :D
(04:50:46 PM) lnovich: push who?
(04:51:01 PM) Corey84: i've recently done docker with vm but not vm in vm
(04:51:03 PM) lnovich: you better have very long arms....
(04:51:27 PM) lnovich: randomuser: do you have a suggestion where to put this wiki page?
(04:51:45 PM) kamdard [~kamdard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] entered the room.
(04:52:23 PM) randomuser: hmm? what wiki page?
(04:52:37 PM) bexelbie: push yruseva
(04:53:05 PM) lnovich: randomuser: (04:50:30 PM) grundblom: lnovich is making a wiki page for an outline on what we need to do for the virt-getting-started guide to be able to bring its content to a more comprehensive guide..
(04:53:33 PM) randomuser: ah
(04:54:02 PM) randomuser: call it, erm, "Virt Getting Started Guide Planning" ?
(04:54:12 PM) lnovich: no i mean where as in url
(04:55:00 PM) p_ondrejka left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(04:56:04 PM) randomuser: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Getting_Started_Planning
(04:56:19 PM) randomuser: fp.o/wiki/page_name
(04:56:28 PM) lnovich: ok works for me!
(04:56:30 PM) lnovich: thanks
(04:58:36 PM) smccann: should we create one for the virt deploy guide as well and start collecting ideas there too?
(04:58:45 PM) lnovich: sure
(04:59:14 PM) mnavrati is now known as mnavrati_mtg
(04:59:24 PM) slevine [~slevine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] entered the room.
(05:01:23 PM) smccann: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virt_Deploy_Admin_Planning
(05:01:32 PM) lnovich: nice one smccann!
(05:02:02 PM) smccann: it's my first created wiki page... I wonder if I get a badge for this!
(05:02:14 PM) ***smccann collects badges for motivation
(05:02:14 PM) lnovich: smccann++
(05:02:20 PM) zodbot: lnovich: Karma for smccann changed to 2: https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
(05:02:42 PM) grundblom: Well done!
(05:03:34 PM) smccann: aw shucks... thanks :-)
(05:03:34 PM) kushal [~kdas@103.249.88.135] entered the room.
(05:03:44 PM) kushal left the room (quit: Changing host).
(05:03:44 PM) kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] entered the room.
(05:04:16 PM) lnovich: ok listen - i have 2 more meetings back to back and need to grab a drink before I go to the meeting room
(05:04:26 PM) lnovich: i will start the wiki page.
(05:04:56 PM) smccann: okay thanks for all the help!
(05:04:59 PM) lnovich: please put your comments in as a different color so i can track them
(05:05:14 PM) lnovich: or mark who it is making the comment /change
(05:06:21 PM) grundblom: Great, thanks lnovich and smccann!
(05:06:38 PM) lnovich: next wed, same bat time same bat channel?
(05:06:56 PM) smccann: sounds good
(05:07:03 PM) grundblom: Sounds like a plan
(05:07:15 PM) ***lnovich waves good bye
--
Regards,
Laura Novich
******************************************************
* Laura Novich *
* RHCSA (Red Hat Certified System Administrator) *
* *
* Content Author, Platform Virtualization / KVM *
* Customer Content Services (CCS) *
* Red Hat EMEA, Ra'anana Israel *
* *
* Phone: +972 9 7692397 *
* Direct:72397 *
* Fax: +972 9 7692223 *
* Mobile: +972 54 7693489 *
* *
* IRC: lnovich *
* *
******************************************************
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 15:36:15 +0000
From: bugzilla@xxxxxxxxxx
To: docs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Bug 989059] PDF file content has been located at right half
of page.
Message-ID: <bug-989059-194009-wPtd24sLtE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=989059
Sandra McCann <scmccann2000@xxxxxxxxx> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |CLOSED
CC| |scmccann2000@xxxxxxxxx
Resolution|--- |CURRENTRELEASE
Last Closed| |2015-06-22 11:36:15
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 20:12:28 -0500
From: Glen Rundblom <glen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: docs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Virt getting started guide chapters
Message-ID: <5588B27C.9030008@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 06/22/2015 08:14 AM, Sandra McCann wrote:
I like the idea of a 'why to use virtualization'. This will be very
handy if we do put docker in that guide.
I'd like to see docker documented, the question I have (being a total
noob for containers) - would someone looking for docker go to a
virtualization guide??
Sandra
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Glen Rundblom <glen@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:glen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hello,
I was looking over the wiki page outline for the virtualization
getting started guide, and thought two things:
1. Do we need a chapter (3) on why someone should use virtualization
2. I think we should include a chapter about Docker
I was thinking about Docker because to overcome the publican
problems in Fedora22 I built a Fedora21 image with publican so I
can build the guides. It occurred to me that it probably should be
in the guide as well.
Respectfully,
-Glen
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Well, I was thinking about if Dockers and virtualization, and I can
think that they are similar in that they are trying to create
portability and isolation. Maybe this shared similarity is reason enough
to include them?
Like right now I am using Fedora21 in a docker image for publican, but I
want to avoid running a full version of Fedora 21 in gnome-boxes or
virtualbox if I just want publican.
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