00:02:29 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:02:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 17 00:02:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:02:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:02:39 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:02:42 * Sparks 00:02:54 * stickster 00:02:56 * jjmcd is here 00:03:03 * joat . 00:03:08 * rudi is here 00:03:48 <stickster> Sparks: Should the schedule tasks be on the agenda too? 00:04:05 * danielsmw 00:04:13 <stickster> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html 00:04:22 <Sparks> stickster: Probably 00:04:30 <Sparks> We'll shoe horn it in 00:04:44 <stickster> I'd recommend that be there on a regular basis, just to avoid any sudden screechy left-hand turns 00:04:51 <Sparks> Yeah 00:04:55 <stickster> Even if the kids in the back think it's fun 00:05:08 <jjmcd> Trubble is, we're already in that state 00:05:23 <Sparks> Okay, let's get going! 00:05:25 * Tsagadai is here but late :) 00:05:32 <Sparks> #topic Last week's action items 00:05:50 <Sparks> quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme 00:05:55 <Sparks> quaid: You here tonight? 00:06:14 <stickster> Sparks: I can fill in here 00:06:21 <Sparks> stickster: go! 00:06:25 <stickster> mizmo worked for many hours the other night on Zikula theme 00:06:51 <stickster> But there is some very significant broken stuff in Zikula itself that made the work slow, frustrating, and ultimately unfinished 00:07:21 <stickster> mizmo has to punt for now because the web design is higher priority and there's too much Zikula architecture stuff to figure out for her to progress as fast as she's used to doing with other frameworks 00:07:47 <stickster> eof 00:08:02 * jjmcd thinks that after we come up for air we need to work on zik dox 00:08:34 <Sparks> stickster: So do we need to find someone else to work on the skins? 00:08:47 <stickster> Sparks: mchua is going to do that 00:09:06 <Sparks> Okay... Good to know. 00:09:11 <Sparks> jjmcd: zik dox? 00:09:28 * stickster is a little disappointed at Zikula progress -- not because people didn't put forth superhuman effort, because they *did* 00:09:28 <jjmcd> My exploration of zikula was hampered by horrible dox 00:09:34 <jjmcd> lots of them, all useless 00:09:39 <stickster> More because there's so many broken pieces when you dig inside. 00:09:47 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah 00:09:53 <Sparks> stickster: I agree 00:10:14 <Sparks> There were a lot of people that put a lot of work into it and found it "not as advertised" 00:10:16 <stickster> It makes me want to get further information on (1) how we decided on it, and (2) re-evaluate that process so that we can learn from the experience 00:10:20 <stickster> But moreover 00:10:25 <stickster> I think having itbegins around has been helpful 00:10:33 * mchua here 00:10:35 <stickster> And I want to make sure that what we're learning is being fed back to the Zikula community for action 00:10:36 * mchua reads backlog 00:10:57 <stickster> mchua: No biggie, just letting Sparks know that you are going to be on the lookout for more theming help for Zikula 00:11:05 <jjmcd> stickster, that's why I say, once we get capacity free, we ought to help them out, too 00:11:27 <stickster> jjmcd: A significant portion of the problem may be issues we can't solve, though -- like architectural issues, according to mizmo 00:11:35 <jjmcd> since they helped us 00:11:45 <Sparks> stickster: Yeah, we've received a lot of support... but we had to re-engineer so much... 00:11:46 <stickster> I have no idea myself, not sure I'd know from looking at it anyway :-) 00:11:47 <mchua> itbegins and mizmo have cleared their plates completely of FI items, so itbegins can help more people do FI stuff instead of doing tons of it himself 00:11:58 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, we need to give them guidance, but without simon, would you have gotten off the ground? 00:12:12 <stickster> Not sure. 00:12:24 <stickster> Anyway, don't let me derail your agenda Sparks, I think we answered the status bit 00:12:53 <mchua> All the remaining FI work is listed in https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Fedora+Insight&order=priority in a manner that is pick-uppable by passers-by. We're trying to doc everything as we go along so future zikula deployments will be smoother. 00:13:05 <mchua> but yeah, there have been a lot of hacks as we approach the endgame. 00:13:20 <stickster> mchua: Not to mention the hacking we did in the startgame too :-) 00:13:24 <mchua> ...that too, yeah. 00:13:33 <Sparks> Okay... we'll get more into Zikula in a bit.. 00:13:35 <Sparks> moving on 00:13:38 <Sparks> quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:14:00 <Sparks> Anyone know about the outcome of this? I feel we have revisited this more times than not. 00:14:33 <rudi> Haven't heard anything new about it; don't know if quaid has broached the subject with Richard 00:14:45 <rudi> So, AFAIK, Richard's previous advice stands 00:15:24 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:15:34 <Sparks> danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite 00:15:49 <Sparks> This didn't happen. Has anyone stepped up to do this? 00:16:13 <danielsmw> Sparks: Here's my update. 00:16:31 <danielsmw> I looked at using TinyMCE and worked at that spec file for a bit 00:16:56 <danielsmw> I later consulted with abadger1999 and figured out that TinyMCE would be basically impossible to package without 4 or 5 other packages that are questionably packagable 00:17:05 <Sparks> oh, danielsmw IS here! Welcome! 00:17:11 <danielsmw> Yes, I'm here. :) 00:17:20 * stickster shouts Howdy to danielsmw 00:17:31 <Sparks> danielsmw: So scratch TinyMCE 00:17:34 <danielsmw> Anyway, we've picked up Xinha as our new option, as long as everyone's okay with that. 00:17:39 <danielsmw> yes, scratch TinyMCE. 00:17:50 <danielsmw> Xinha looks like it has compliant licenses 00:17:53 <danielsmw> and is packagable. 00:17:57 <Sparks> danielsmw: I'm good with whatever works! 00:18:04 <danielsmw> i'm almost done with the spec file, it's just complicated because of the lack of js guidelines. 00:18:19 <danielsmw> but abadger1999 is helping with that and hopefully i'll have it up for review before next wednesday. 00:18:22 * ianweller is here now 00:18:31 <Sparks> abadger1999++ 00:18:34 <danielsmw> Indeed 00:18:37 <Sparks> danielsmw++ 00:18:41 <Sparks> Excellent! 00:18:52 <Sparks> Okay... moving on... 00:18:54 <Sparks> ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved 00:18:58 <Sparks> ianweller: Just in time! 00:19:41 <Sparks> ianweller: I think you did this already... didn't you? 00:20:13 <onekopaka> which CC license? 00:20:24 <Sparks> CC-BY-SA 00:20:30 <onekopaka> mmkay. 00:20:49 <Sparks> ianweller was here.... 00:20:57 <Sparks> We'll come back to him later... 00:21:01 <ianweller> hi 00:21:04 <onekopaka> Sparks: he disappears when he wants to. 00:21:05 <ianweller> my internet is suck tonight 00:21:06 <Sparks> ianweller: hi 00:21:09 <ianweller> aaaagain 00:21:13 <stickster> :-D 00:21:26 <ianweller> Sparks: all it needs to say is the message that "blah blah blah is licensed under blah blah blah" at the bottom of the page, just like every CC site 00:21:31 <ianweller> Sparks: unless you're looking for something different 00:22:58 <ianweller> i'm not sure if it's a good thing that my ISP's phone number is a busy signal right now ^_^ 00:23:01 <ianweller> Sparks: is that good? 00:23:13 <Sparks> ianweller: Works for me... 00:23:29 <ianweller> ok 00:23:42 <Sparks> Any other old business? 00:24:01 <rudi> Publican update? 00:24:15 <Sparks> #topic Publican Update 00:24:18 <Sparks> rudi: Go for it! 00:24:48 * quaid is back 00:24:54 <rudi> radsy, ryanlerch, and I are still waiting for sponsorship so that we can get Publican dependencies into Fedora 00:25:15 <rudi> Once that's done, we can move ahead with both 1.0 and with the updated Fedora brand package. 00:25:16 <stickster> ianweller: I think as the wiki czar, you're empowered to make the change, fwiw 00:25:32 <rudi> So, any trusted packagers out there, we need you :) 00:25:43 <stickster> ianweller: As long as we've notified people the change is coming, why, etc. 00:26:11 <rudi> * perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.27-1.fc11.noarch.rpm – https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521569 00:26:12 <buggbot> Bug 521569: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext - Joins the gettext and Maketext frameworks 00:26:13 <rudi> * perl-Makefile-DOM-0.004-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521724 00:26:14 <buggbot> Bug 521724: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-DOM - Simple DOM parser for Makefiles 00:26:15 <rudi> * perl-Makefile-Parser-0.211-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521723 00:26:15 <buggbot> Bug 521723: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-Parser - Simple parser for Makefiles 00:26:18 <Sparks> rudi: Okay. Do we need anyone to give a nudge to someone? 00:26:52 <rudi> Well, unless we have any trusted packagers in the docs group, I'm open to suggestions... 00:27:13 <rudi> This is the blocker right now for Publican 00:27:39 <rudi> ianweller -- are you a trusted packager? 00:28:18 <ianweller> rudi: i guess 00:28:21 <Sparks> rudi: I don't think we have any trusted packagers in Docs. Heck, until a few months ago we didn't have packagers in Docs. 00:28:29 <Sparks> ianweller: Are you? 00:28:36 <ianweller> they trust me enough to sponsor people 00:28:47 <rudi> Great! That's what we need :) 00:28:54 * ianweller trusts himself less than the community trusts him ;) 00:28:59 <rudi> lolz 00:29:06 <rudi> IMHO, that's always a good sign 00:30:22 <rudi> Do you think you'll have the time to look at those in the near future>? 00:30:34 <rudi> (and, of course, would you want to?) 00:31:42 <Sparks> rudi: Can you get with ianweller after the meeting, maybe? 00:31:49 <rudi> NP 00:32:13 <Sparks> rudi: So basically after that you can support the fedora brand in Publican 00:32:29 <rudi> Yep 00:32:36 <Sparks> Cool 00:32:41 <Sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:32:55 <Sparks> #topic Release notes format changes 00:33:12 <Sparks> #idea Put All Changes in a separate doc? 00:33:20 <Sparks> #idea Drop beats with few changes 00:33:21 <jjmcd> Pretty much did them all except the separate doc ... moved them to the end 00:33:28 <Sparks> #idea Rearrange/add beats 00:33:37 <jjmcd> I think we are ready to make pots. Still a couple of beats to touch up, but we should be at the 90% point. 00:33:39 <Sparks> jjmcd: Cool... 00:33:52 <jjmcd> Many many thanks to rudi and Zach 00:33:59 <Sparks> So the RNs are on schedule? 00:34:03 <jjmcd> L10N will love the 8000+ strings, but I think we'll hide that from them. 00:34:07 <rudi> jjmcd -- so you're ready to pull the trigger now? :) 00:34:09 <jjmcd> Sparks, no, not at all 00:34:16 <jjmcd> rudi yeah 00:34:23 <Sparks> jjmcd: No? 00:34:24 <jjmcd> Most recent build at http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/index.html 00:34:41 <jjmcd> Sparks, even after 900 cycles with john 00:34:45 <rudi> Great -- I'll doctor up a POT file after the meeting :) 00:34:54 <jjmcd> the wiki freeze came AFTER the pots in the schedule 00:35:09 <jjmcd> We should have had pots last week 00:35:27 <jjmcd> With luck, tomorrow. And yeah, htanks much rudi. I would appreciate that 00:35:52 <Sparks> Okay. Anything I can do to help? Do you need more resources? 00:36:14 <jjmcd> Well, we should now be in good shape 00:36:25 <Sparks> Okay 00:36:28 <Sparks> Anything else? 00:36:29 <jjmcd> THere are a couple of lame beats, but most of the changes were in virt 00:36:39 <jjmcd> Also, I got surprised with a huge FEL document 00:36:50 <jjmcd> I trimmed it way down, but it is still too large 00:37:03 <jjmcd> Chitlesh has been working his butt off 00:37:23 <jjmcd> But it is now under control 00:37:36 <Sparks> cool 00:37:40 <Sparks> anything/one else? 00:37:50 <jjmcd> thats it from me 00:37:55 <Sparks> moving on... 00:37:57 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:38:05 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:38:08 <stickster> jjmcd: rudi: Thanks for your hard work 00:38:40 <Sparks> So Zikula has stalled on the runway... Are we now pushing this for f13 for sure? 00:39:10 <quaid> I think we were clearly not making it for F12, but shortly thereafter 00:39:19 <Sparks> Okay 00:39:21 <quaid> we'll be able to ride 80%+ on the Fedora Insight work going on 00:39:28 <stickster> Assuming that proceeds well 00:39:31 <quaid> skin, integration, etc. 00:39:34 <Sparks> WORKSFORME 00:39:51 <quaid> stickster: well, that would only adjust my 80% down the scale some amount 00:39:54 <quaid> I hope :) 00:40:04 <Sparks> I guess the question now is... do we want to try to work on the existing docs.fp.o to clean it up for F12? 00:40:22 * mchua wonders if Docs is interested in a zikula sprint for FUDCon as well 00:40:39 <Sparks> mchua: Which FUDCon? 00:40:42 <mchua> f12 00:41:05 <jjmcd> or perhaps a docs.fp.o cleanup 00:41:08 <mchua> as a "Marketing got FI up, let's make our experience useful for Docs" thing infra-wise 00:41:40 <mchua> and a "Docs is good at writing/workflows, Marketing can learn from Docs in getting an FI zikula workflow tweaked" thing as well, perhaps 00:42:00 <Sparks> mchua: I'm good with that 00:42:46 <mchua> Ok. Who should I be coordinating with on that to see if it's a possibility then? Sparks, is that you? 00:42:56 <Sparks> mchua: Sure. 00:43:04 <mchua> cool. action item me. ;) 00:43:08 <Sparks> mchua: Are we talking about the FUDCon in Toronto? 00:43:12 <mchua> yup. 00:43:36 <jjmcd> I think it's too cold for these southern boys 00:43:52 <Sparks> #action mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto 00:43:58 <Sparks> jjmcd: It is concerning 00:45:10 <Sparks> Okay... anythign else? 00:45:24 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:45:32 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:46:04 <Sparks> I think we are waiting for the last minute request for quaid to talk to Richard about the CC logo on the wiki 00:46:21 <Sparks> otherwise our next step is to announce internally of the change 00:46:54 <quaid> well ... 00:47:04 <quaid> spot: ping 00:47:14 <spot> quaid: yes? 00:47:29 <quaid> have you heard anything about discussions with Creative Commons 00:47:47 <quaid> about using their logo on our websites? 00:47:55 <spot> i have not... should i have? 00:48:09 <quaid> rfontana said he was going to pursue something with them perhaps. 00:48:22 <spot> send him an email and cc me 00:48:24 <quaid> ok, not sure if you were in that loop or not, I reckon not 00:48:26 <spot> and i will stay on him 00:48:37 <quaid> yeah, he said on list that he was going to look in to it, and I didn't want overly bug him :) 00:48:40 <quaid> but I'll do that now 00:48:47 <quaid> Sparks: k, we've reached 00:48:48 <spot> he tends to be busy 00:48:55 <quaid> the time when i said I'd bug him if we hadn't gotten word 00:48:57 <quaid> so I'll do that :) 00:48:57 <spot> i have regular meetings with him to make sure stuff doesn't get lost 00:49:13 <rudi> For us to be happy to use the logo, CC would have to change *their* licensing... 00:49:16 <stickster> He's a good mug and won't mind being bugged 00:49:35 <rudi> I suspect that even if they agree in principle, it would take time for them to implement that change 00:49:37 <quaid> rudi: well, or give us a specific exception that satisfied us, but ... 00:49:43 <quaid> that might have the same effect :) 00:49:58 <quaid> I think we should, as rudi is perhaps hinting 00:50:00 <Sparks> rudi: They wouldn't have to change their license. We could only use it on the wiki. 00:50:03 <quaid> proceed as if we don't get the logos to use 00:50:19 <rudi> Sparks -- ie, change their license 00:50:39 <Sparks> rudi: Well... yes, they'd have to change for us to use it on our docs 00:50:55 <rudi> quaid -- that is indeed what I'm hinting :) 00:51:09 <Sparks> ya 00:51:26 <Sparks> Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to go back and put the logo in on the wiki... 00:51:40 <rudi> Exactly 00:51:46 <Sparks> So... all in favor of proceeding with just the text of the CC-BY-SA 00:51:49 <Sparks> +1 00:51:54 <rudi> +1 00:52:07 <quaid> +1 00:52:12 <mchua> +1 00:52:12 <stickster> +1 fwiw 00:52:30 <Tsagadai> +1 00:52:31 <jjmcd> abstain 00:52:41 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there a problem or??? 00:52:55 <jjmcd> Nope, I see no prob either way 00:53:10 <Sparks> #agreed Proceed with CC licensing using only the text 00:53:20 <Sparks> quaid: Will you still follow up on the logo issue? 00:54:34 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues 00:54:38 <Sparks> moving on! 00:54:47 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:54:56 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:55:03 <Sparks> Does anyone have an update on this? 00:55:27 <rudi> No progess since last week 00:55:33 <Sparks> rudi: Okay 00:55:41 <Tsagadai> not really an update as such but that may come up when I bring in a few things in a couple of weeks :) 00:55:41 <Sparks> rudi: Anything to talk about on this topic? 00:55:56 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Okay 00:56:13 <Tsagadai> there are 3 docs I have which I've scheduled to upstream as soon as I get a chance 00:56:36 <rudi> Sparks -- I'm not sure what the last you heard was; I have a greenlight from legal to take most of our internal material upstream 00:56:47 <Sparks> rudi: I didn't know! Excellent 00:56:54 <Sparks> rudi: Just keep us updated. 00:57:17 <rudi> So it now rests on time arising in my schedule, because legal will need to greenlight the final subset I pull out to use 00:57:43 <Sparks> Okay... cool deal 00:57:46 <Sparks> anything else? 00:57:47 <rudi> Tsagadai -- 3 docs for the upstream Style Guide? 00:58:27 * Sparks notes two minutes left 00:58:33 <Tsagadai> nope, Virt Guide, Git guide, libvirt API guide :) 00:58:43 <rudi> Ah OK -- you're ahead of us :) 00:58:56 <Sparks> okay, pressing on 00:58:58 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs? 00:59:05 <Sparks> Anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:59:18 * stickster has to bail for now 00:59:37 <Sparks> #topic New Guides 00:59:42 <Sparks> Any new guides? 01:00:15 <Sparks> #topic All other business 01:00:20 <rudi> Sparks -- I might *very maybe* have an early version of a Power Management guide 01:00:25 <Sparks> Okay, any other business anyone would like to talk about? 01:00:27 <rudi> But that's more likely to make F13 01:00:45 <Sparks> rudi: Ooooo sounds cool 01:01:09 <Sparks> Okay, anyone else? 01:01:18 <Sparks> 5 01:01:22 <Sparks> 4 01:01:24 <Sparks> 3 01:01:26 <perspectival> I've just sent an update concerning the Deployment Guide to the fedora-docs-list 01:01:27 <Sparks> 2 01:01:37 <Sparks> perspectival: +1 01:01:39 <perspectival> I try to come in at the last minute 01:01:43 <Sparks> :) 01:01:45 <Sparks> 1 01:01:47 <Sparks> Anyone else? 01:01:55 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! 01:01:58 <Sparks> #endmeeting -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
