Summary to follow shortly Prettified wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090520 Raw text below: 20:00 < Sparks> <meeting id="Docs"> 20:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 < Sparks> Roll call... 20:00 * Sparks is here 20:00 * ke4qqq is here 20:01 * sk0rd is here 20:01 * jjmcd is somewhere 20:02 * rudi is here 20:02 * laubersm is here 20:03 * Sparks gives a few more minutes for everyone to show up 20:03 * laubersm goes to get a drink - brb 20:03 < ianweller> if you need me, ping me, i'll be distracted mostly 20:03 < Sparks> ianweller: We need you 20:03 < ianweller> *thud* 20:05 < Sparks> Okay... let's get started. 20:05 < laubersm> mmmm 20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Can you handle the log for tonight? 20:05 < ke4qqq> sure 20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Thanks 20:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Release Announcement 20:06 < Sparks> Okay... This has been moved up to high priority. 20:06 * ianweller removes that pot from the back burner 20:06 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 20:06 < Sparks> I had writer's block over the weekend and I won't be around this weekend. 20:07 < Sparks> Since the release has been pushed back by a week we have a little breathing room... 20:07 < SgtDitt> here 20:07 < Sparks> however we need to get this done ASAP so the translators can get on it. 20:07 < Sparks> Who can write up a draft that we can look at? 20:08 < Sparks> Don't everyone volunteer at once, now... I'd hate to crash the IRC network 20:09 < Sparks> ianweller: Do you have some time to write an opening paragraph for the announcement? 20:09 < rudi> Sparks - I can do it, but it will be a few days before I get to it. 20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: "We're awesome." 20:09 < rudi> (over the weekend0 20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: but in all seriousness i could come up withs omething and get it to the list tonight 20:09 < Sparks> rudi: Okay. The schedule says that we were supposed to begin this today and have it done by Friday... that was before the push 20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: put it on the wiki... that way it's already there 20:10 < ianweller> well, yeah. ping the list that i actually did it too 20:10 < Sparks> yeah 20:10 < ianweller> that was what i meant to say :P 20:10 < Sparks> :) 20:10 < Sparks> Cool 20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: rudi: thanks! 20:11 < sk0rd> I'll shoot for a draft on the page as well 20:11 < ianweller> so the rel announcement is gonna be i18n'd? 20:11 < Sparks> How is this presented to the "customers"? 20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: Supposedly 20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: which is confusing me because I'm not sure how it's being propagated 20:12 < ianweller> Sparks: mailing list usually 20:12 < Sparks> Maybe we can get that answer when stickster_afk shows up. 20:12 < Sparks> ianweller: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe I misread the schedule 20:13 < laubersm> I think we are reposonsible for an English annoucement for emails. But a lot of locations like to translate and tweak it for their regions 20:13 < laubersm> I do not think it has ever been a tranfix thing 20:13 < Sparks> I'm good with that. 20:13 < laubersm> but that may of changed... 20:13 < jjmcd> The instructions say to keep that in mind 20:13 < ianweller> yeah so write it as if it were to be translated 20:13 < Sparks> So should they be put somewhere and "translated" into XML? 20:14 < jjmcd> Some translated literally, other parts may be radically revised in translation 20:14 < jjmcd> I don't think so. Sounds like most will be rewritten for the target geography 20:14 < laubersm> Sparks, I do think we have in the past but we'll have to check with our elders (quaid, stickster_afk ) 20:14 < laubersm> opp 20:14 < laubersm> do NOT think we have 20:15 < Sparks> laubersm: Yeah, where are those old people? 20:16 < Sparks> Okay... looks like we have this moving 20:16 < Sparks> I appreciate it. 20:16 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:16 < laubersm> too snarky ? 20:16 < Sparks> Nope 20:16 < Sparks> :) 20:17 < Sparks> Okay, we'll talk about this more after the meeting... 20:17 < Sparks> any questions? 20:17 * jjmcd will be sure to be around to make jabs at ianweller 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Much appreciated 20:17 < Sparks> Okay... moving on... 20:17 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd 20:17 < Sparks> How are them there Release Notes coming? 20:18 * jjmcd hasn't caught up on all the cool stuff laubersm, rudi, zoglesby, etc. did while he was playing at Dayton 20:18 < laubersm> jjmcd, yeah about that.... 20:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: Oh there were many things that happened while you were away 20:19 < laubersm> I think rudi was on top of adding the last minutes items and getting a new pot 20:19 < rudi> Yep all done. 20:19 < laubersm> I assume everything else just goes on the wiki 20:19 < jjmcd> We do a 0-day RPM 20:20 < rudi> There were a couple of bugs filed overnight about Section IDs and re-adding the Common Bugs section from F10 20:20 < jjmcd> Yeah, I saw that 20:20 < rudi> I've confirmed that we could do this with practically no impact to L10N 20:20 < laubersm> jjmcd, from what is being translated now? or are we pushing one more pot too? 20:20 < Sparks> I've noted a few messages on the list talking about updates 20:20 < jjmcd> If nobody else is making a bunch of changes I can go ahead and add the id's 20:21 < jjmcd> We are scheduled to push a pot immediately after release 20:21 < jjmcd> seemd weird but 20:21 < laubersm> jjmcd, I think that one is to then update docs.fp.o 20:21 < rudi> jjmcd I've got them done and ready to push... 20:21 < jjmcd> yes, i think that is correct 20:21 < laubersm> no more rpms after GA - though we could push one through updates if we wanted 20:21 < jjmcd> cool 20:22 * quaid is able to be here now for a short bit 20:22 < rudi> There was also a request to add a note about libguestfs, but I think this is way too late now, yes? 20:22 * jjmcd is doing some reports for MSP, not going well, Eric's writer's block is catching 20:23 < laubersm> if anything else comes in before we build the ga rpm - then it sounds like we can add a link to the wiki info without bothering the translators 20:23 < laubersm> is that true? 20:23 < quaid> translators? for release announcement? 20:23 * quaid is confused now 20:23 < jjmcd> We did get a week push back 20:23 < laubersm> then it is "in" the rpm for those looking there to know there is more info "somewhere" 20:24 < jjmcd> quaid: previous topic 20:24 < sk0rd> can someone speak more to the push back? docs is my only insight as to what's going on 20:24 < quaid> jjmcd: we need to revisit when we get a chance, there is a misconception underway 20:24 < ke4qqq> sk0rd: we'll talk in #f-d 20:24 < quaid> sk0rd: release engineering in yesterday's meetings declared a week slip in the schedule 20:24 < Sparks> quaid: I must have misread the schedule. There isn't anything about translating the annoucement on there now 20:25 < quaid> Sparks: can I speak on that now? or wait until a topic change soonest? 20:25 < Sparks> quaid: Go for it 20:25 < quaid> ok, I've tried to make this clear on some wiki page that I can't find right now :) 20:25 < quaid> there are two deliverables -- 20:25 < jjmcd> /Releases/Announcements 20:26 < quaid> 1. A set of clear top-five talking points for _others_ to use when constructing their own, native language, locale-specific (humor, no humor, etc.) release announcement 20:26 < quaid> 2. A whimsical, English-only release announcement that i) uses those same talking points (functionally similar to locally written announcements), but ii) is not for l10n itself because of idiomatic/culture specific content 20:27 < quaid> it is the latter that is the main need from Docs 20:27 < quaid> the former is more handled by Marketing, but $someone needs to tell f-amb-l and f-trans-l 20:27 < quaid> that the points are ready for them to use for their own locale-specific write-up. 20:27 < quaid> <eof> 20:28 < jjmcd> OK, that was mostly my understanding except it wasn't clear that Marketing was handling the former, Docs the latter, nor was the top-five clear 20:29 < jjmcd> Releases/Announcements makes it sound like some undefined body 20:29 < quaid> well, to be honest, I'm not clear if Marketing has that former task on their schedule 20:29 < laubersm> that is even easier than what I said - I thought 1 came more from 2 ... but that it was still just a write up (no xml or tx from docs). 20:29 < quaid> I sort-of dropped that ball this release, since I've been the main driver on that for the last several 20:29 < quaid> laubersm: it's also honestly fun -- you should do it! 20:29 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:29 < laubersm> that was my attempt :) 20:30 < quaid> heh 20:30 < laubersm> seems a bit snarky even for the english version 20:30 < laubersm> :) 20:30 < jjmcd> laubersm, seems to me Fedora's image is a little "corporate", snarky might be good 20:30 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcement_template 20:31 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements 20:31 < quaid> there we go! 20:31 < sk0rd> the l10n reference is a bit obscure. With the art team working on grecian references, why not duplicate the theme 20:31 < quaid> that has a link to all previous whimsical announcements 20:31 * laubersm notes it is only in a Marketing Category - no wonder we we didn't have it here in docs... 20:31 < quaid> there is no pattern on theme duplication or ref. to release name, although that is a popular theme. 20:32 * laubersm logs into wiki... 20:32 < quaid> um, [[Release_announcements]] is in [[Category:Docs Project]] 20:33 < laubersm> the template is not 20:33 < laubersm> or WAS not 20:33 < laubersm> :) 20:33 * laubersm also moved the [[Category: to the bottom where it belongs 20:33 < Sparks> laubersm: ianweller will thank you 20:34 < laubersm> :) 20:34 < jjmcd> hmmmm, reading the F10 announcement, I hope there was an en-GB version 20:35 < Sparks> ? 20:35 < jjmcd> might work for nl, or even en-AU, but not the straight laced Brits 20:35 * ianweller thanks laubersm 20:35 < Sparks> laubersm: See, I told you 20:37 < quaid> one other point, not sure if it is on that page ... 20:37 < quaid> but the whimsical announcement must be approved by the sitting FPL, in this case, stickster_afk 20:37 < quaid> just give him ~24 hours heads up 20:37 < jjmcd> most of us would value his counsel anyway 20:38 < Sparks> most of us wonder why he bails on us these days 20:38 < jjmcd> Probably he has more to do than just chill on IRC, just guessing 20:38 < jjmcd> Isn't he about to head to Romania? 20:39 < Sparks> Probably 20:39 < Sparks> I don't know... haven't heard anything about Romania 20:39 < sk0rd> ok, next topic? 20:39 < sk0rd> ;) 20:39 < Sparks> Okay.. anything else on the announcement? 20:39 * quaid is done and has to vaporize now 20:39 < jjmcd> I thought I heard he was speaking in Bucharest this weekend 20:39 < Sparks> wow 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... anything else on the RNs? 20:40 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Review http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule 20:40 < jjmcd> </rn> 20:40 < rudi> Just confirmation that we agree that libguestfs is too late? 20:41 < Sparks> too late for zero-day? 20:41 < rudi> Yeah 20:41 < jjmcd> The schedule saysfinal snapshot today and release pushed back a week, so I would say no, not too late 20:41 < Sparks> yeah, I think we should take advantage of the push 20:41 < rudi> OK - but I guess we should get confirmation that L10N is happy with that... 20:42 < jjmcd> I agree 20:42 < rudi> OK - I'll ask :) 20:42 < jjmcd> today = today zulu time 20:43 < rudi> Doesn't that mean that the translations would need to be completed by today? 20:44 < Sparks> how many changes need to be fixed? 20:44 < jjmcd> It says build rpm 5/25 20:44 < jjmcd> Seems like there has been a flood of bugs today 20:45 < rudi> Sparks - the section IDs (fixed), the Common Bugs section (fixed, but one problem), and the request to add libguestfs to the RN 20:45 < Sparks> so... five lines? 20:46 < rudi> Checking... 20:46 < rudi> Yep 20:47 < Sparks> cool 20:47 < Sparks> that shouldn't be too bad to "repair' 20:48 < rudi> There are also requests for documentation of two bugs, one in anaconda and one in libfprint, but I think they can go on the Common bugs page on the wiki, yes? 20:48 < Sparks> I would think so 20:50 < Sparks> Anything else? 20:50 < rudi> Not that I'm aware of 20:50 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Guides 20:50 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour I'm not going to go through all the guides 20:51 < Sparks> does anyone need anything for their guides or is anyone having any problems? 20:51 * ke4qqq needs more time 20:51 < Sparks> for the IG? 20:51 < ke4qqq> but thankfully rudi is doing a great job of keep things moving 20:51 < Sparks> You have a week more! 20:52 < ke4qqq> lol wow - granted my wish :) 20:52 < rudi> ke4qqq - what needs doing? 20:52 < ke4qqq> rudi: I was talking about I need more time - as far as I know the IG is in good shape, we probably need to get the final release ready (get rid of draft tag) but we can talk in a bit and not hold up the meeting 20:53 < rudi> OK - yep :) 20:54 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Open Floor 20:54 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything they want to discuss? 20:54 < rudi> Translators have noticed a couple of glitches in the big, merged PO files for both the IG and UG, but I've suggested we wait until Transifex 0.6 is available rather than do anything about these now 20:54 < ke4qqq> Me! 20:54 < jjmcd> Do I gather we have agreement on everything in Publican for 12?: 20:54 < sk0rd> I did, heck if I can remember. 20:54 < ke4qqq> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF <--- Docs FAD 20:54 < laubersm> jjmcd, I agree - but can we have less than everything ? 20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not yet 20:55 < sk0rd> ah, new contributors, hand raised when ready. 20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like to have a free minute or two to really think about it. I didn't see anything objectionable, though 20:55 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Okay... go with your shameless plug 20:56 < ke4qqq> honestly I think we are in a poor place to make that decision jjmcd - immediately before release - extremely busy with all of that - might make for less than reasoned look. 20:56 < ke4qqq> We have a docs fad at the above link 20:56 < ke4qqq> you should all attend 20:56 < ke4qqq> (And SELF the day before) 20:56 < ke4qqq> ianweller is going to teach packaging 20:56 < Sparks> ke4qqq: That's all you got? 20:56 < jjmcd> ke4qqq, I can buy that. I was just hoping to check one more thing off the list :-) 20:56 < ke4qqq> and hopefully we can hash this out. 20:56 * Sparks is still contemplating on how to get down there 20:56 < ke4qqq> that is it from me 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: how many Fedora hams are going to be there? 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Maybe a designated simplex freq? 20:57 * laubersm prods Sparks to get to the "new contributor" before time runs out 20:57 < ke4qqq> 2 that I know of. 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: ok 20:57 < ke4qqq> I'll add that 20:57 < Sparks> sk0rd: Go ahead! 20:58 < sk0rd> I've been really happy with the time that people have spent with me, but I've noticed quite a few introductions and whatnot through the mailing list 20:58 * jjmcd has been emailing applicants to get intros 20:58 < sk0rd> as far as getting people involved, does anyone have any thoughts on improving the documentation on... joining documentation and getting started? 20:59 < Sparks> sk0rd: We need to get on that as well. This is just a really "bad" time to join as we are rushing to get everything finished for the release 20:59 < laubersm> I think a lot of us have ideas but no one has settled down enough to get it done. 20:59 < laubersm> sk0rd, I came in about this time one release ago to the same issues 20:59 < Sparks> but we should make it a priority to be better with being able to get new members on track early 20:59 < sk0rd> Sparks, it is so for senior contributors yes 21:00 < jjmcd> Sparks, gotta strike while the iron is hot, tho 21:00 < Sparks> Oh, I agree! 21:00 < sk0rd> perhaps I'll try and hit on it 21:00 < Sparks> There will be changes for F12. 21:00 < sk0rd> </comment> 21:00 < laubersm> sk0rd, no - any one - if there is something that wasn't clear to you before and somehow is now - please jump in and expand in the join docs! 21:01 < laubersm> I and others have been prodding quaid and stickster_afk to go through and "fix up" the pages too 21:01 < laubersm> with their years of wisdom 21:01 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oh i am teaching packaging? interesting. 21:01 < Sparks> ianweller: You are now 21:01 < ke4qqq> by fiat 21:01 < jjmcd> you are our leading expert 21:01 < ke4qqq> :) 21:01 < laubersm> ianweller, the CMS is to be all packaged before you can sleep 21:02 < laubersm> the more people you teach, the more likely you will get to sleep 21:02 * laubersm says knowing she will not be able to be there 21:02 < ianweller> looks like i'm getting no sleep 21:02 < ke4qqq> ianweller: I tried to get jds2001, but looks like he is unavailable 21:02 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oic. 21:02 < ke4qqq> and then Max said sending you was 'the right thing to do' 21:02 < ke4qqq> :) 21:03 < ianweller> i saw that 21:04 < jjmcd> THat way you'll be all practiced up to teach at FUDcon 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 21:07 < Sparks> I'd like to mention that I'll be helping my wife move for the summer (summer internship) beginning tomorrow and I won't be back until Monday. I won't have Internet access during this time so I'm turning over the conn to jjmcd for the weekend. 21:07 < laubersm> excellent! 21:07 * jjmcd will be around 21:08 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 21:08 < jjmcd> Sparks, Does that mean you will be batching it for the summer? 21:08 < Sparks> jjmcd: pretty much 21:08 < Sparks> pizza and soda all summer long 21:08 < jjmcd> Ooooh, bad. Gotta fend for yourself 21:09 * jjmcd suspects Sparks needs time in .de to learn things that go better with pizza 21:09 < Sparks> I have some projects to work on over the summer... maybe that will keep me out of trouble. 21:09 * Sparks is too poor to go to .de... 21:09 < Sparks> okay, anything else? 21:09 < Sparks> 5 21:09 < Sparks> 4 21:10 < Sparks> 3 21:10 < Sparks> 2 21:10 < Sparks> 1 21:10 < Sparks> </meeting> -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
